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Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
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10-30-2010, 08:01 PM
Post: #41
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
The Jeremiah verse that you quoted
Jer 8:8 How do ye say: 'We are wise, and the Law of the LORD is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought the vain pen of the scribes. We see the word there lasheker,which, as you mentioned before can mean, according to Strong's an untruth; by implication a sham (often adverbially): - without a cause, deceit (-ful), false (-hood, -ly), feignedly, liar, + lie, lying, vain (thing), wrongfully. In the following verses also we see where lasheker means in vain and not a lie. Jer 3:23 Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the LORD our God is the salvation of Israel. Psa 33:17 An horse is a vain thing for safety: neither shall he deliver any by his great strength. 1Sa 25:21 Now David had said, Surely in vain have I kept all that this fellow hath in the wilderness, so that nothing was missed of all that pertained unto him: and he hath requited me evil for good. I believe the Jeremiah 8 verse is saying the scribes,who along with the priests taught and explained the Law to the people, made the Law which they taught a sham and disregarded it as a vain/useless/futile thing. As in the times of Christ,they taught the Law but didn't themselves follow it.By reading through the Jeremiah chapters we see why God was saying this. Jer 2:8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit. Jer 5:11 For the house of Israel and the house of Judah have dealt very treacherously against me, saith the LORD. Jer 5:12 They have belied the LORD, and said, It is not he; neither shall evil come upon us; neither shall we see sword nor famine: Jer 5:13 And the prophets shall become wind, and the word is not in them: thus shall it be done unto them. Jer 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof? The prophets,priests and scribes were all prophesying falsely and the priests and scribes were complicit.But Jeremiah who we have as Scripture, was prophesying for the Lord.Jeremiah 8 does not refer to Scripture but to what the scribes and teachers of the Law were doing in Israel then.Instead of relying on the true prophets of God and teaching the Law correctly they instead fashioned for themselves false prophecies and interpretations of the Law they had been given. Jer 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. |
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10-31-2010, 09:18 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2010 09:35 AM by sari83.)
Post: #42
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
(10-29-2010 01:21 PM)Vic Wrote: And whether some I have written about in HR/messianic do or don't believe the virgin issue, being a false prophet means they have prophesied falsely on something according to the Biblical definition of false prophet. You need to get your definitions and understandings a little clearer. Dictionary: proph·et (prŏf'ĭt) Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionary n. A person who speaks by divine inspiration or as the interpreter through whom the will of a god is expressed. A person gifted with profound moral insight and exceptional powers of expression. A predictor; a soothsayer. The chief spokesperson of a movement or cause.[Middle English prophete, from Old French, from Latin prophēta, from Greek prophētēs : pro-, before; see pro-2 + -phētēs, speaker (from phanai, to speak).] prophethood proph'et·hood' n. http://www.answers.com/topic/prophet (10-31-2010 09:18 AM)sari83 Wrote:(10-29-2010 01:21 PM)Vic Wrote: And whether some I have written about in HR/messianic do or don't believe the virgin issue, being a false prophet means they have prophesied falsely on something according to the Biblical definition of false prophet. You need to get your definitions and understandings a little clearer. Easton's Bible Dictionary (Hebrews nabi, from a root meaning "to bubble forth, as from a fountain, " hence "to utter", Comp. Psalm 45:1). This Hebrew word is the first and the most generally used for a prophet. In the time of Samuel another word, ro'eh, "seer", began to be used (1 Samuel 9:9). It occurs seven times in reference to Samuel. Afterwards another word, hozeh, "seer" (2 Samuel 24:11), was employed. In 1 Ch. 29:29 all these three words are used: "Samuel the seer (ro'eh), Nathan the prophet (nabi'), Gad the seer" (hozeh). In Joshua 13:22 Balaam is called (Hebrews) a kosem "diviner," a word used only of a false prophet. The "prophet" proclaimed the message given to him, as the "seer" beheld the vision of God. (See Numbers 12:6, 8.) Thus a prophet was a spokesman for God; he spake in God's name and by his authority (Exodus 7:1). He is the mouth by which God speaks to men (Jeremiah 1:9; Isaiah 51:16), and hence what the prophet says is not of man but of God (2 Peter 1:20, 21; Comp. Hebrews 3:7; Acts 4:25; 28:25). Prophets were the immediate organs of God for the communication of his mind and will to men (Deuteronomy 18:18, 19). The whole Word of God may in this general sense be spoken of as prophetic, inasmuch as it was written by men who received the revelation they communicated from God, no matter what its nature might be. The foretelling of future events was not a necessary but only an incidental part of the prophetic office. The great task assigned to the prophets whom God raised up among the people was "to correct moral and religious abuses, to proclaim the great moral and religious truths which are connected with the character of God, and which lie at the foundation of his government." |
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10-31-2010, 12:39 PM
Post: #43
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
You seem fixated or obsessed with trying to prove me wrong in some way, Sarah. I said the one's that were named false prophets in my articles had indeed prophesied falsely according to the Scriptures. I am not sure why you would not understand that issue, from a Biblical perspective.
1-they may have openly claimed to be prophets, and or speaking what God told them to speak 2--the events or issues did not come to pass. * and that is totally aside from the false teachings they promote This isn't rocket science. God was very clear. And you can go by 10 definitions from whatever sources, but according to the Scriptures, God was very clear on HIS view. Incidentally a teacher isn't necessarily making the claim of being a prophet. Not everyone that speaks of the Scriptures is making a claim to be a prophet nor are they. Even the prophets themselves knew they were prophets versus some other leadership position. "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils." I Tim. 4:1 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in they name? and in they name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matt. 7:22-23 Jer 5:31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof? Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. Jeremiah 23:25-32 I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. 26. How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; 27. Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal. 28. The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD. 29. Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? 30. Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. 31. Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. 32. Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD. From the Mosaic Law > Deuteronomy 18:18-22 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22. When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. You see Sarah, these and other verses give a guideline of what a prophet was and wasn't. It's through the Scriptures we gain understanding. Now you seem to have an axe to grind with me because you perceive that me asking you direct questions or challenging your statements to be an attack on you. However what you miss is that we are required to try the spirits and everytime you have omitted answering those basic doctrinal questions, or clarifying the conclusions being reached based on your statements, for example, calling Christians anti-semites, merely leaves you in a position of not being sound doctrinally. And it merely confirms the direction you seem to be going. You haven't been asked hard questions for someone who belongs to Jesus Christ. However, you won't answer and you avoid dealing with any of the posts and challenges that prove you wrong in your agenda driven information. Because that is what it has to be when you ignore and diss provable facts. You just keep right on going with your line of doctrine that you wish to disseminate. And you make your remarks towards me. If You have an issue with me, and before you start being moderated by Sheep or Rose, you take it private. Otherwise you will be finding your posts moderated or totally missing. Because we have forum rules about attacking the admins, and we also have a rule if there is an issue towards one admin--the others deal with that person so it won't be taken wrong. So I am giving you fair warning. Follow the rules. Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
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10-31-2010, 01:51 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2010 02:37 PM by sari83.)
Post: #44
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
(10-31-2010 12:39 PM)Vic Wrote: You seem fixated or obsessed with trying to prove me wrong in some way, Sarah. I said the one's that were named false prophets in my articles had indeed prophesied falsely according to the Scriptures. I am not sure why you would not understand that issue, from a Biblical perspective. You told me to leave this forum, and go to one of those Hebrew/Messianic ones because they're open to such topics. You attempted to falsely label me. So, I was merely stating that I've investigated, and did not find this to be the case among messianics. In fact I've read that the messianic movement was started by Christians in an effect to convert Jews. So, you see I have never read this information at any such place nor do I think it's common among them as you've stated. [/quote] Now you seem to have an axe to grind with me because you perceive that me asking you direct questions or challenging your statements to be an attack on you. However what you miss is that we are required to try the spirits and everytime you have omitted answering those basic doctrinal questions, or clarifying the conclusions being reached based on your statements, for example, calling Christians anti-semites, merely leaves you in a position of not being sound doctrinally. And it merely confirms the direction you seem to be going. You haven't been asked hard questions for someone who belongs to Jesus Christ. However, you won't answer and you avoid dealing with any of the posts and challenges that prove you wrong in your agenda driven information. Because that is what it has to be when you ignore and diss provable facts. You just keep right on going with your line of doctrine that you wish to disseminate. And you make your remarks towards me. [/quote] I did not call Christians anti-semitic. (If you see that statement in any of my posts, please quote.) I was saying that I can see where some unbiblical doctrines (replacement theology) have been led by this spirit of anit-semitism. Honestly, I didn't intentionally avoid any questions. I will review previous posts to see what you're referring to. [/quote] If You have an issue with me, and before you start being moderated by Sheep or Rose, you take it private. Otherwise you will be finding your posts moderated or totally missing. Because we have forum rules about attacking the admins, and we also have a rule if there is an issue towards one admin--the others deal with that person so it won't be taken wrong. So I am giving you fair warning. Follow the rules. [/quote] I'm truly sorry, when you used your words to insult my faith, and attack my character. It was unexpected, and I felt really hurt. Sheep and Rose, Thank you for all the information. I will continue to pray and study this matter further. Sarah (10-30-2010 08:01 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote: The Jeremiah verse that you quoted (10-26-2010 04:05 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote: We also see that Jesus was fully human and also fully divine.Why does it have to be one or the other and not both?[/color][/b] I understand what you're saying. The purpose of me examining the virgin birth is not to say that Christ was merely a human. Obviuosly that was not the case: John 10:17-18 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. (KJV) I've read some Christian apologetics minitries that say both the sperm and the egg were made by God in heaven, and placed into Mary's womb. Therefore Jesus had neither the genetics of Mary or Joseph. This is not based in scripture. I see people go through great lengths of interpretation to come up with reasonable explanations. |
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10-31-2010, 02:58 PM
Post: #45
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
(10-31-2010 01:51 PM)sari83 Wrote: You told me to leave this forum, and go to one of those Hebrew/Messianic ones because they're open to such topics. You attempted to falsely label me. So, I was merely stating that I've investigated, and did not find this to be the case among messianics. In fact I've read that the messianic movement was started by Christians in an effect to convert Jews. So, you see I have never read this information at any such place nor do I think it's common among them as you've stated. It is your choice to stay or leave - but if you stay, then you must adhere to the guidelines of this forum. So far, you have not, which is why she warned you. You do not take what we have posted seriously whether it be Scripture or factual evidence. You appear to be posting a continuing agenda of promoting HR errors and using commentaries and dictionaries that are not Biblical in their content or definitions. This is how we view your posts. So it is better to be where you can post your perspective than here where we insist on a Biblical view, not a man-made one. Sorry if a Biblical view is offensive to you, but that is how it is here. Quote: Sarah, you have totally ignored the facts and Scriptures given by Rose and Sheep and not just in this topic. You have an agenda and that is to spam your beliefs. You can easily see that by how you avoid answering most things put to you, except the ones that further the line you want to follow. And you can tell by how you attempted to start threads in the SeekGod.ca article section---and never quoted or discussed the actual article but simply spewed the HR mantra of "under the law." Seriously discussing something from a believers standpoint means BELIEVING that the Word of God stands true. It means Believing that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh. It's knowing Who He IS. By your sidestepping and not answering specific statements and verses and not even validating that you believe that God very much protected His Word contained in the Scriptures so we would have the Sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God in order to prove all things to it. You are taking mans opinions and ideas OVER what exists in the Word of God which became a closed canon many years ago. You are in fact adding to and taking away from it. That's your choice. But on here, when we discuss the Scriptures, it's knowing and believing that they are true. Don't try and pull the antisemitic card---which you already tried, or the trying to stifle conversation--which you already tried; or trying to keep readers from the 'real' truth, which you are trying to suggest. The reality is, you have doubts about the validity of the Scriptures and wish to promote those ideas. Bad idea. You don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ. Really bad idea. You inferred it subtly. We are not unaware of every approach used by the HR venue in how information and accusations are presented. You also implied anti-Semitism and used a commentary to provide the avenue to do that without making comment as to the content of that commentary. The following remark came out of the blue in response to what Rose posted: http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...329&page=7 post #61 Quote:Rose: Quote: sari: Quote:I'm truly sorry, when you used your words to insult my faith, and attack my character. It was unexpected, and I felt really hurt. We asked you questions about what you believe, but you failed to respond. Your "faith" was not attacked nor was your character. Pointing to the evidence of your posting is not an attack. Quote:Sheep and Rose, So far you have not shown that this is your habit. Your mind was made up way before you came here. You have not responded to any proofs that we have presented, but instead continue to post your personal beliefs, in spite of the evidence and Scriptures we have presented to you. |
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10-31-2010, 03:01 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2010 03:02 PM by sari83.)
Post: #46
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
(10-29-2010 12:25 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: Sari: Basically, the question is to whether a person believes the doctrine of biblical inerrancy. Which in my opinion is a man-made doctrine unsubstantiated by the bible. It is not fair to accuse a person of being unfaithful because I use reason and logic, which are God-given human characteristics. I don't believe I said anything about "inerrancy". I am speaking of inspiration and preservation by God through His Holy Spirit. The NT clearly shows that it is the very Words of Christ. Reason and logic are how one can prove that God preserved His Word. He left a clear "trail" as it were. Some are distracted by the rabbit trails which lead to ship wrecked faith. What you are saying is that if we don't agree with you, we don't use reason and logic.  [/quote] My sincere appologies for the "reason and logic" comment. |
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10-31-2010, 03:09 PM
Post: #47
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
You know I was a little curious about you Sarah, because of your posts and contradictions. You come across as very HR or even passed into Judaism to a heavy degree. Certainly you are not sound in the faith of being a Christian.
So I did a quick check and not surprisingly found your nic here > >>Is this you Sarah aka sari83 same as on here?>>>> Using Yahuah and yeshayahu and Yahuashua; speak of the renewed covenant etc. Quote:Followers of Yah http://www.hostingphpbb.com/forum/search...aniccommun And not surprisingly there is a discussion on false prophets where this sari83 posted an interesting post. Quote:Characteristics of a false prophet > Quote: 1 Yohanan 4:1 says: "Beloved ones, do not believe every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of Seems slightly different than the post you have given here don't you think? However, we can make an assumption based on your posts here that you believe pretty much the same as this twin sari83 in promoting all the things we have challenged you on. We were willing to see where you would go. As far as the "Hebrew bible" you use....which you wouldn't answer of course and rather deflected and redirected, did you forget about changing the Word of God and adding to and taking away from it? You said in your limited testimony, and our sympathies for your loss of your husband, that Quote:If God leads me one day to a place that is biblical instead of doctrinal I would gladly gobut everything you say is based on promoting doctrine not Scripture. You don't believe the NT is inspired (or OT based on your statements) and promote the renewed covenant not New Covenant. You can't abide the Bible as true which is why you try to find quotes from every other source to refute the Scriptures and facts given to you here. You appear to have no foundation in the Word and are very contradictive. You said God's Word always took the forefront, yet you don't believe it to be true. You seem to have no concept of what it means. Which is why you are here promoting your beliefs, the virgin birth, denying the divinity of Christ, etc. You aren't seeking to discuss and gain Biblical understanding because you are following heresy which you believe to be true. So here we are, as we have been with so many. Sarah, you need to hear what we are saying to you. You said I questioned your faith? that's because what you say shows you doubt everything, from the Scriptures being God's Word and true, to the Truth of who Jesus Christ is. You can't have it both ways. You don't need to play the victim here. It was up to you to answer the questions and clarify any misunderstanding we might have because you were given every opportunity to do so. You wouldn't answer. That was your choice because in not answering it validated our statements and conclusions. Col 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. 1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: What you do need to do is really consider the things we have said and the facts and Scriptures we have given you that prove we are pointing you to the Word of God--not our opinions. It's up to you where you go, but when you leave here, still holding those same things you came here with, the downward spiral will continue until you believe nothing in God's Word and based on your statements, there's not much left, since you reject who Christ is and the New Covenant aka the New Testament. These things matter according to the Scriptures. Look at these and please think about them. We are called to discern between truth and error, good and evil. That's what we are doing. Hebrews 5:12-14 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Ephesians 2:20-22 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: *****God was manifest in the flesh,**** justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 2 John 1:7-11 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that ****Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.**** This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11. For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. 1 John 4:1-3 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that**** Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:**** 3. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 2 Peter 3:14-18 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen. 1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:1-11 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2. Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3. [b] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6. And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7. And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. [b/] 10. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11. For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
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10-31-2010, 03:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-31-2010 04:02 PM by sari83.)
Post: #48
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
(10-31-2010 03:09 PM)Vic Wrote: Seems slightly different than the post you have given here don't you think? However, we can make an assumption based on your posts here that you believe pretty much the same as this twin sari83 in promoting all the things we have challenged you on. We were willing to see where you would go. As far as the "Hebrew bible" you use....which you wouldn't answer of course and rather deflected and redirected, did you forget about changing the Word of God and adding to and taking away from it?[color=#1E90FF] but everything you say is based on promoting doctrine not Scripture. You don't believe the NT is inspired (or OT based on your statements) What better way for the enemy to try to deceive God's children than interjection of a little contadiction here or there? Where a contadiction exists one has to be truth and one has to be a lie. Only the holy spirit can give us the discernment to know the truth. You appear to have no foundation in the Word and are very contradictive. Can you give me some examples, as to how I've contradicted myself? You said God's Word always took the forefront, yet you don't believe it to be true. I was referring to growing up as a Christian, not my adult years. Which is why you are here promoting your beliefs, the virgin birth, denying the divinity of Christ, etc. Denying the virgin birth does not deny Christ's divinity. There are no scriptures that state one must believe the virgin birth. Believe he's the Son of God, Messiah, God in the flesh..yes. That he was born of the virgin Mary...not one. It was up to you to answer the questions and clarify any misunderstanding we might have because you were given every opportunity to do so. You wouldn't answer. That was your choice because in not answering it validated our statements and conclusions. This show that we all have different perspectives. I don't see myself as ignoring any questions. However, since my presence here makes you uncomfortable, I will leave. |
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10-31-2010, 06:47 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2010 10:15 AM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #49
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
(10-31-2010 03:59 PM)sari83 Wrote: I don't claim any label other than a believer and child of God (Yhwh). As I said in my testimony, all of my Hebrew studies are based in Strong's Concordance. I have no issue with the names God and Jesus. I like to use the personal names of the Father and His Son. Most gods do have a personal name, why shouldn't ours? All of your "Hebrew" studies involve much more than Strong's. We have showed you that what you believe is Hebrew Roots myths. If you have no issue with the name, "God", then why use a "personal name" that you picked up through the teachings of Hebrew Roots? Your pronunciation of "Yahuah" is not in the Strong's, so you did not get this teaching from "all of your Hebrew studies" from Strong's. The older Strong's used Jehovah - the newest Strong's uses "Yahweh". "yahuah" is one of the most corrupted names as the "hey" at the end does not even exist at the end of masculine Hebrew nouns, sometimes feminine nouns and verbs. God does have a personal name, we just don't know what it is. There is no known pronunciation for YHWH, but a whole lot of conjecture and opinion and just plain rotten scholarship, some of which is heretical - like the Hebrew Roots sacred namers who promote salvation by their "revealed" name of the week. Quote: but everything you say is based on promoting doctrine not Scripture. You don't believe the NT is inspired (or OT based on your statements) Quote:What better way for the enemy to try to deceive God's children than interjection of a little contadiction here or there? Where a contadiction exists one has to be truth and one has to be a lie. Only the holy spirit can give us the discernment to know the truth. That is the point that we have been trying to make. You are not discerning what is truth and what is false because you do not know the Bible. Hebrews tells us that discernment comes from reading the Word of God not by revelation. Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Quote: You appear to have no foundation in the Word and are very contradictive. Quote:Can you give me some examples, as to how I've contradicted myself? above .... for example [everything Hebraic you got from Strong's]. and your next statement: Quote:You said God's Word always took the forefront, yet you don't believe it to be true. Quote:I was referring to growing up as a Christian, not my adult years. This is what you wrote in your testimony: Quote:We stayed together for years and continued in our beliefs, though not without imperfection. We were married and spent our newlywed years studying the bible, and in daily prayer and meditation. We also picked up a Strong's Concordance to help further our studies. According to your testimony, you are only 27 years old, so exactly when is your "adult years" if they weren't when you were married having kids? Quote:Denying the virgin birth does not deny Christ's divinity. There are no scriptures that state one must believe the virgin birth. Believe he's the Son of God, Messiah, God in the flesh..yes. That he was born of the virgin Mary...not one. The problem is that you don't believe what God has said through Matthew and Luke, which means you do not believe they are inspired of God. That in turn means you have no authoritative Scripture if all your sources and commentaries keep plugging away at "modifications" and additions/deletions" compared to the "oldest and best" mss > which we indicated to you are corrupted. It is not matter of choosing what part of Jesus you want to delete or keep. If you cannot accept the virgin birth, you have no Messiah. You cannot say He is God in the flesh without the virgin birth - that explains it totally. Without Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit in a virgin - He is not God in the flesh. It fulfills prophecy, plain and simply, and if Jesus did not do that, He is not the Christ. Quote:It was up to you to answer the questions and clarify any misunderstanding we might have because you were given every opportunity to do so. You wouldn't answer. That was your choice because in not answering it validated our statements and conclusions. Quote:This show that we all have different perspectives. I don't see myself as ignoring any questions. However, since my presence here makes you uncomfortable, I will leave. I believe it is you that is "uncomfortable" as you cannot answer the questions asked of you. You perceive yourself to be righteously Biblical, when you have proved that your beliefs do not come from the Bible, but from man. You have refused to answer the question about you being sari83 on the yah forum. You have refused to answer if you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh. You have refused to answer if you believe Jesus is born of a virgin. You have refused to answer whether you believe the Bible to be God's Word and true. You have refused to answer whether Jesus is divine ie on the divinity of Jesus issues . You two-step around the questions with your answers, which are not direct, but divisive, showing us that your belief system is not Biblically based. You believe "I can see clearly now, and I know when I learn a spiritual truth, it's from God," yet you cannot prove your beliefs to the Word of God which is the standard of where we are get our doctrine. You cannot prove them because you don't believe the Word of God to be authentic, therefore you are going by your own feelings and ideas and those you glean from others. That means you are gnostic in your thinking. It has nothing to do with God and knowing Christ, and everything to do with you. |
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10-31-2010, 09:29 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-01-2010 01:24 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #50
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RE: Virgin Birth or Son of Joseph?
[post edited by moderator]
(10-31-2010 06:47 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: What are the Hebrew myths I believe? I've never stopped reading the Word in my whole life. What I was saying is that as an adult my relationship with Christ became personal. I stopped focusing on what I had always been taught, and started to learn for myself. This is what you wrote in your testimony: Quote:We stayed together for years and continued in our beliefs, though not without imperfection. We were married and spent our newlywed years studying the bible, and in daily prayer and meditation. We also picked up a Strong's Concordance to help further our studies. This is true. The problem is that you don't believe what God has said through Matthew and Luke, which means you do not believe they are inspired of God. That in turn means you have no authoritative Scripture if all your sources and commentaries keep plugging away at "modifications" and additions/deletions" compared to the "oldest and best" mss > which we indicated to you are corrupted. How about the Ebionites? Would you say their claims as followers of Christ were false? It is not matter of choosing what part of Jesus you want to delete or keep. If you cannot accept the virgin birth, you have no Messiah. You cannot say He is God in the flesh without the virgin birth - that explains it totally. Without Jesus being conceived by the Holy Spirit in a virgin - He is not God in the flesh. It fulfills prophecy, plain and simply, and if Jesus did not do that, He is not the Christ. So, did the holy spirit place a y chromosome .... [edited out by mod] Was Mary without sin? There are numerous other prophesies fulfilled that are fully affirmed, and do not have to be taken out of context. Ex: Isaiah 53, Psalm 22 Quote:It was up to you to answer the questions and clarify any misunderstanding we might have because you were given every opportunity to do so. You wouldn't answer. That was your choice because in not answering it validated our statements and conclusions. On page 3 of this topic, I gave my belief statement: [Jesus said that God is Spirit. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (KJV) I believe that Jesus is, the anointed Son of God, the physical manifestation of God, according to the flesh, the fruit of David's loins. Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; (KJV) Rom 1:3-4 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: (KJV) |
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