What's the True Name of God?

[Ne'arYah]

Let me kind of pick-up where I left-off. Given the fact that no one challenged what I said about the Yeh over Yah with scripture or studies. I will assume that so far we are all together that we now agree when we remove the vowel points from the Hebrew text we are left only with a Yah sound not Yeh.

Let me simply add this point to my previous point. Calling him Yehovah or Yeshua is ones own choice… To an extent, if one does this because they have studied the Masoretic text than that one would be 100% correct in teaching that these names are correct.

However, when we continue our studies to make our understanding closer to the original tongue that was spoken we get further away from the Yeh sound and closer to the Yah sound.

If anyone here has followed my comments you will notice that I use a variation of names for his name.
For whom you call God I use Yah, Yahweh, Yahuah, Elohim, Alahiym
And for the Son the one you call Jesus I use Yahushua, Yahusha.
I can explain more about why I don’t use other names, and I most definitely can explain why I said something that may seem alarming to some, which is I really don’t like using the name Jesus. I think it was said by someone “it’s because I don’t know him” well as much as that sounds like an insult, I don’t. The name Jesus was not in existence 500 years ago, and when we discover that the Greeks gave him this name, its only wise to ask why and how. I won’t get into this today, but I will remind you again that the name Jesus is 500 years old, that means it only dates back to the 1600’s. So this means that the name Jesus is younger than the country of the United States which was found in the year 1492 (according to some) by Christopher Columbus. So one needs question what his name was before that was in those 200 years and beyond since he was here more than 1500 years earlier. We see his name actually plays a strong role in our life. Hopefully my little knowledge can help who ever is willing to listen.

So why do I add the “uah and “usha” to the end of the names.

Flavius Josephus wrote the golden crown worn by the high priest contained 4 vowels (The Jewish War 5:5:7)

Our Greek translations come from Greeks and their language, which does not have consonants that equate to Hebrew. Example is the letter yud becomes iota in Greek.
Yud- hay- vav only began to double as vowels in the 9th century BCE. Before then, they were used as constants and even after the 9th century “yud” at the beginning of a word constituted a consonant. Knowing this the new king james almost gave us the full truth in the name a few places in scripture. Psalms 68:4 and Isaiah 12:2 there are a few more but I give two only to show the point.

The third letter of the name in today’s time carries a “v” sound, but historically it carried a “W” sound in ancient times. Example being Yeshayahu (Isaiah) is pronounced yahu or yahuw through this you can start to see why some call him Yahweh or Yahuwah.

I want to offer a scripture…
- She conceived again, and bare a son. She said, "This time will I praise the LORD." Therefore she named him Yehuda (Genesis 29:35 Hebrew name bible)
- And she conceived again and bore a son, and said, “Now I will praise the LORD.” Therefore she called his name Judah. Then she stopped bearing. (Gen 29:35)

Two things you can learn from this if you have on your thinking-caps. One his name couldn’t be God, Lord, or lord because she called him Judah. And two, if we understand that the Hebrew translation used the Masoretic text to get the “Yeh”uda” from the term Judah. If this stands true, then we’ve just took one step closer in learning the fathers true name because we know that the beginning of his name isn’t yeh, but Yah so we now see the term “Yahudah”.

So we’ve just gone from having Yah to now having a full name of Yahudah, but we need to remove the dalet from the name Judah - (Yhdwh) - (Yhwh) doing this now gives us Yahuwah or Yahuah.

Some scholars use the name Yahoweh from the assyrians who transcribed the name as Ya-u-a . Yet some still like to stick with the Yeh sound because again, this is how the Massoretes vowel pointed it. We can argue for days about why they vowel pointed the name this way be it to deceive some, or a simple misspelling. Some say they purposefully did it, others scholars say they did it intentionally to tell the reader that it was to be used as a “qere perpetum” which is to have the term Elohim or Adonai to be spoken instead while reading the name. My opinion is that it doesn’t matter because I know that the Masoretic text and anyone else’s text wasn’t there when it was spoken to Moses. I’ll stop here because I would like to explain myself further on the name Jesus and hopefully answer some of the many questions I’ve read on this board dating back to page 2 and beyond.
As it contains to all of this I would like to simply add the following

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

I usually use this to show people that the Law is very much alive considering the timing of when this book was written. However, today I want to point out the later part of the verse.

- and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

Let’s say you were one that called the Father Yehohavh or the son Y’shua or something else. I don’t think it matters much because this one line becomes the cornerstone of helping us understand how patient Elohim is with us assuming that we didn’t know what we now know. I’m not saying my way is right, but if you know the name Yahuah or Yehovah is closer to his name, yet you consciously have decided to call him God (which is a title given to all gods) does that really make sense?
We may not all see eye to eye on what his actual transliterated name is, but all of us should agree that it is not a title called god. I’m sure my next post is going to ruffle some feathers. But please keep the passage in Hebrews in mind.
For the word of God is quick and powerful … and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12)

If I’m allowed to actually speak my mind here then this will be most needed as I attempt to explain the American names that we call Jesus and God from a historical stand point. Hopefully I can find the time to this.

[Vic]

(05-20-2011 11:37 AM)NearYah Wrote:  Let me kind of pick-up where I left-off. Given the fact that no one challenged what I said about the Yeh over Yah with scripture or studies. I will assume that so far we are all together that we now agree when we remove the vowel points from the Hebrew text we are left only with a Yah sound not Yeh.


If I’m allowed to actually speak my mind here then this will be most needed as I attempt to explain the American names that we call Jesus and God from a historical stand point. Hopefully I can find the time to this.

You need to read the rules about comments like the above "If I’m allowed to actually speak my mind here " Read the rules and abide them. Stop making those remarks or similar or you won't have to worry about that issue at all. Thank you.

NO one agreed with you Nearyah. Your 'scholarship' was totally disproved. You are using made up names not found in the Hebrew--or Greek. Solid Scholarship was given and you ignore it. That's what you do because you think you are here to teach. You are a member here to 'discuss'. NOT teach what you do not know. The issue is something you choose to ignore facts about. You have been asked repeatedly to use the english name of Jesus, not the made up names you post alongside Jesus. Since you can clearly write Jesus as a name, you can please us it in your posts. Thank you.

Please save us the time of having to go into cirucular discussions which have already dealt with all you have already said on this topic. It's Time for you to move on to some other thread. Thank you and PLEASE, stop trying to teach anyone.

[YYZ Skinhead]

I was looking up articles on women and non-Israelis in the IDF and found this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netzah_Yehuda_Battalion which is a division for devout Jewish men. The name of the battalion in Hebrew is גדוד נצח יהודה . When spelled with English letters the name Yehuda (Judah) begins with "Yeh" and not "Yah". I assume it is pronounced the same way it is spelled i.e. YEHuda, not YAHuda. I think Israelis would know more about Hebrew spelling and pronunciation than English-speaking Western Messyantics and HR.

[Ne'arYah]

Who said I was “a english speaking Western Messyantic, or is this your assumption?”

Look I would expect nothing more from my brothers, and sisters because I understand probably more than you why we use the vowel pointing system. However it does not make it right or true.
Which is clearly demonstrated through the talmud and other sources. It's called mans tradition, as much of an insult as it may sound to say this Yiddish is not the pure language of the Hebrew, and most definitely the ancient Hebrew.

It would be the equivalent to people telling you and I that 400 years later after we pass that we should use the word "gooudt" in place of "good" because that’s how some copies we found spelled it. You and I would be quick to say well that maybe true but regardless of how you spell it or say it its spelled good and it is said ga-ud (ebonic example)

The only thing is that we are doing far worse when we teach this “yeh” stuff and the consequences are a lot higher in some unique situations.

I'll give you a puzzle to solve. If what I'm saying to you about the yah or Yeh sound is wrong. Would you please explain to me why the KJV gave rights over to reproduce their bible in the following format.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of YHWH, and the faith of Yahushua.
(Rev 14:12 RKJV)

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Yahushua : for he shall save his people from their sins.
(Matthew 1:21 RKJV)

Are we going back to my scholars are better than your scholars, or are you willing to agree with me that both are right? One from the MT vowel pointing system (mostly used today) which your Greek bible was created from, and one from a more ancient source being ancient Hebrew, which is more than likely, correct since there was no Massorite was there placing vowel points as Moses was writing the scriptures.

I have at least three other copies of those that spell the name with a "Yah" sound, and one that spells it closer to the shorten tongue of Aramaic with Y’shua and only. And I have one that spells it in the form of Yeshua (which you do not see the Father’s name in ( there is no “Yeh” there)
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of YHWH shall be delivered.
And as we’ve learned from Vic’s heavy post on definitions the “Yah”, and in your case “Yeh” sound is important because it lays the foundation of what the father name means? So should we call him Yeshua because this is what the MT vowel pointing systems says? Do you not think that it would be important to at least have the “Yeh” or “Yah” sound in the sons name? If not check this out
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit:
(Matthew 28:19)

Seeing this passage should help you realize why you need the Yah or Yeh in the son’s name. When you call on the Father, Son, and Holy spirit- you get all of that out of one name Yahushua. If not then you have to be baptized in the name of Yehovah (Father), Yeshua ( Jesus), and the Ruach Hakodesh (Holy Spirit) literally. And this is why some churches like the Baptist have parted ways and baptizes their members in all three (at least back in the 80’s) while others such as Pentecostal do it in the name of Jesus. If they both used the proper form of the name all three are covered, but not with Yeshua.

Tell me this…
If the King James Version agreed with all the information we’ve seen about the “Yeh” sound being with the name why they would produce a version with the “Yeh” sound, or am I just the first of many to explain this to you in a sound way. Maybe I got a hold of their ear too.

As I've stated before this is nothing to get your bridges caught-up in, and the topic is really one of opinion, but I can explain to you why some things among the name should not be accepted and others should.

I alluded to the idea that the Massorites may have tampered with the names in their translation, which has been addressed here in the myth portion. Have you ever looked at that the name Elijah? And this isn’t my point but notice the Jah or Yah sound that is in the Father’s prophet.


When they translated that name they purposefully called him Helios by doing this they removed the name of the Father from his name which meant my Elohim is Jehovah (strongs terms). Notice the spelling of the name strong’s shares with us concerning Elijah, its Helios.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexi...2243&t=KJV

Helios is found 30 times in the "Textus Receptus" which is where we got our NT from. On the contrary this term isn’t even seen in the Hebrew version of Matthew; you do know that Helios was a son god right? I would go on but understand what I am saying to you since you obviously are not Hebrew by the assumption you made. The MT vowel points were not and are not found in the Dead Sea Scrolls. The vowel points are meant to show you how to say a word. So if the points are not there, you will not say the same word as most do today. And most today will laugh at you and say you’re crazy for telling them that they are wrong, because most today do not study every second they’re alive like some, and yes I am the some. Thanks for the confirmation

[Rose of Shushan]

Quote:I'll give you a puzzle to solve. If what I'm saying to you about the yah or Yeh sound is wrong. Would you please explain to me why the KJV gave rights over to reproduce their bible in the following format.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of YHWH, and the faith of Yahushua.
(Rev 14:12 RKJV)

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Yahushua : for he shall save his people from their sins.
(Matthew 1:21 RKJV)

What Bible version is the RKJV?

[Vic]

Nearyah, I am not quite sure why you think you have a handle on any languages. Because you surely cannot comprehend simple english.

What did I say in my post to you?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..............................

It's Time for you to move on to some other thread. Thank you and PLEASE, stop trying to teach anyone.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the transliteration and translation for you.

You are to no longer post in this thread. Thank you.

[Vic]

(05-22-2011 04:40 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  

Quote:I'll give you a puzzle to solve. If what I'm saying to you about the yah or Yeh sound is wrong. Would you please explain to me why the KJV gave rights over to reproduce their bible in the following format.

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of YHWH, and the faith of Yahushua.
(Rev 14:12 RKJV)

And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Yahushua : for he shall save his people from their sins.
(Matthew 1:21 RKJV)

What Bible version is the RKJV?

Allow me to answer for the scholar above.

RKJV is a sacred name version which is said to have "restored" the KJV---and all they have done is change the 'name' words in the KJV.

Quote:"The Lite version of the Restored King James Version was derived from the King James Version by replacing "god", "gods", "God" by the corresponding el, elah, eloah, or elohim; "the LORD" by YHWH or YHWiH; as indicated by Strong's Concordance. It also replaces "Jesus" with "Yehoshua". Unlike the regular Restored King James Version, it does not attempt to modernize any other English. The Lite RKJV is intended for those who prefer the old English wording. " rkjv.org/

There's a similar attempt at the sacred name/hebrew roots site of eliyah.com. And of course many other similar attempts to create THE sacred name version---problem is the sacred namers can't even agree amongst themselves which is the 'correct' and TRUE name.

RKJV--It's not actually a new translation and the term 'scholars' doing the translation for it need not be applied. They have taken the KJV and put in the different words for God, etc. which may or may not be the Hebrew or Greek from the original used manuscripts.

As was noted in the article about the Name> http://www.seekgod.ca/htname.htm

Quote:Those who promote this conspiratorial concept might be interested to know that there is actually a translation code that was followed by the King James translators, as well as other modern translators, so that English readers can actually understand how the Hebrew is relative to the English translation. It is as follows:

Elohiym is rendered as God

El is rendered as God

Elah is rendered as God

Eloah is rendered as God

Adonay is rendered as Lord

Adonay YHWH is rendered as Lord GOD

YHWH is rendered as LORD

YHWH Elohiym is rendered as LORD God

Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh as I AM WHO I AM

Nearyah said>

Quote:"If the King James Version agreed with all the information we’ve seen about the “Yeh” sound being with the name why they would produce a version with the “Yeh” sound, or am I just the first of many to explain this to you in a sound way. Maybe I got a hold of their ear too."

Yes, like the KJV translators from 400 years ago got up and decided to do a sacred name version just so neary would have something to quote from.

And suggesting the Hebrew Elijah wasn't in the Greek manuscripts ... well big surprise. There are no original hebrew matthews or other original hebrew NT gospels or other. The NT was in GREEK. Elias was transliterated from Helias-not helios--GREEK---and means ELijah in Hebrew.

So much for the never ending pseudo--scholarship---meaning lack of scholarship of nearyah and HR etc. And the btw, that was THAYERS that was sourced not Strong's in nearyas attempt to twist even that.

And yes we well know the constant put downs of the Greek versus Hebrew and the conspiracy of the massorites to corrupt the Bible...but not just the OT but the NT--which they didn't write or translate. Oh well. Details.

Here's the deal. Nearyah---this thread is closed to you. Don't post on this thread again. Thank you for abiding the forum rules and admin decisions.

[YYZ Skinhead]

Um, I never called anyone on this forum "a english (sic) speaking Western Messyantic". I said that Israelis would know Hebrew grammar better than Western, English-speaking Messyantics and Hebrew Roots enthusiasts (I nearly typed "herd animals" but decided not to). Most Westerners--of any "religion"--who speak English don't speak Hebrew as well. I am a Westerner who speaks English and I don't speak Hebrew, though I want to study it because it's a language I like. Any 4-year-old Israeli kid knows Hebrew better than I do. Flame wars aren't my thing.