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***Vic*** · 08-01-2009, 11:53 AM

(08-01-2009 08:30 AM)Mark Wrote: Thanks Vic,

Yes, it is helping. I am still a little slow at understanding some of it. I guess its due largely to the teachings if the Oneness doctrine. I understand that Jesus was God. I understand the divinity of Christ. I understand Christ was God's Son.
Let me ask this way. Did God die on the cross and get raised again? God is Spirit, right? Was in Jesus' human, physical form that died? When scripture talks of Christ being dead and God raising him, was he raising himself? Again, sorry for being a bit behind on these things. Thanks for all of your help. I am learning a great deal.

Glad it's helping, Mark. The most important thing is that you understand from the Scriptures, because that is God giving the understanding.

Jesus who is God manifest in the flesh, physically died on the cross. Remember the verse:

1 Corinthians 15:45-50 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Remember Jesus was fully man and fully God. The flesh could die physically--but the Spirit is eternal.

In the verses following we see the comparison of God raising Jesus and Jesus raising Himself. More proof that He is God manifest in the flesh. And we know that corruption cannot enter heaven. So when Christ rose---He rose bodily, and why the empty tomb --the corruptible flesh changed to incorruption. Christ rose from the dead, and His is in heaven. Just as He was changed where the flesh was no longer corruptible, we too that know Him will be changed. 47b20s0

Here's the verse showing the interchangeableness of Jesus being raised up by God, and Jesus raising Himself, and similar. Th_ththink

Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

John 2:19-22 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21. But he spake of the temple of his body. 22. When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. ...
Joh 10:17 Therefore does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

1Jn 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.

Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Romans 4:24-25 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25. Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life...Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Romans 8:9-11 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Luk 1:67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that **God hath given to us eternal life**, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, **he became the author of eternal salvation** unto all them that obey him;
Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28. And **I give unto them eternal life;** and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand

29. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to **pluck them out of my Father's hand.** 30. I and my Father are one.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. ...15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Take your time with these verses. There are more. But consider them carefully and prayerfully and allow God to give you the understainding.

7838

sheep wrecked · (This post was last modified: 08-01-2009 01:24 PM by sheep wrecked.)

I am re-posting Mark's question here cause I think it fits what has been discussed:

Quote:If Jesus WAS God, how could he commit his spirit to Him? I know I'm going to go "Duh!" when I get the answer because I should know it already. Anyway, maybe you can explain it is terms I can understand.
Thanks!

Because Jesus is God - God in the flesh on earth - then He had complete power over His own body. As Vic posted:

Joh 10:18 No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

When Jesus was on the cross, He committed His Spirit to the Father, gave up the Spirit and died. He chose the moment of death which is further confirmation of His Deity

Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. 47b20s0

sari83 · 04-05-2011, 01:45 PM

The trinity is not unique to Christianity. A fact that makes me leary of this concept. Are we saying that God has three forms? And that He can be in these three forms all at once? Many times as Christ was praying, He was speaking to the Father. He even says if you do not believe in me, at least believe my Father who sent me. Would any of that make sense if he's speaking of himself?

There's another slightly more plausible expanation. The Father and the Son are seperate entities. Christ is as the Scriptures states, the Son of God. The firstborn of all Creation. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15; I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ps 2:7 (KJV)

Ponder for a moment:

He was brought forth from the Father. Just as the woman being brought forth from the man is a picture of the Son being brought forth from the Father.

Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (KJV)

John 10:30
I and my Father are one. (KJV)

Mary · (This post was last modified: 04-05-2011 06:24 PM by Mary.)

(04-05-2011 01:45 PM)sari83 Wrote: The trinity is not unique to Christianity. A fact that makes me leary of this concept. Are we saying that God has three forms? And that He can be in these three forms all at once? Many times as Christ was praying, He was speaking to the Father. He even says if you do not believe in me, at least believe my Father who sent me. Would any of that make sense if he's speaking of himself?

There's another slightly more plausible expanation. The Father and the Son are seperate entities. Christ is as the Scriptures states, the Son of God. The firstborn of all Creation. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15; I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ps 2:7 (KJV)

Ponder for a moment:

He was brought forth from the Father. Just as the woman being brought forth from the man is a picture of the Son being brought forth from the Father.

Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (KJV)

John 10:30
I and my Father are one. (KJV)

Hi Sari,

I don't always know what you're getting at, but I think it's pretty clear here that you are against the "concept of the trinity"?

I see the way you have laid out your argument against the "concept" mimics the style of a logical argument, however, this does not make it logical, and it seems to me you have grabbed a few verses that appear to suit your conclusion, which is there is no trinity because the "concept" is not unique to Christianity."

How does marriage between man and woman - one flesh - compare to "I and my Father are one"? The contractual and physical union of a man and a woman is utterly different. In this a decision and a commitment has been made, and it is possible to break it. That God the Father, and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are One, is something that just "is" -
no matter what explanation people try to come up with, it remains that the three are one.

(04-05-2011 01:45 PM)sari83 Wrote: The trinity is not unique to Christianity. A fact that makes me leary of this concept. Are we saying that God has three forms? And that He can be in these three forms all at once? Many times as Christ was praying, He was speaking to the Father. He even says if you do not believe in me, at least believe my Father who sent me. Would any of that make sense if he's speaking of himself?

There's another slightly more plausible expanation. The Father and the Son are seperate entities. Christ is as the Scriptures states, the Son of God. The firstborn of all Creation. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15; I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ps 2:7 (KJV)

Ponder for a moment:

He was brought forth from the Father. Just as the woman being brought forth from the man is a picture of the Son being brought forth from the Father.

Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. (KJV)

John 10:30
I and my Father are one. (KJV)

1 Corinthians 3:
10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Rose of Shushan · 04-05-2011, 06:29 PM

Quote:He was brought forth from the Father. Just as the woman being brought forth from the man is a picture of the Son being brought forth from the Father.

According to who?

sari83 · (This post was last modified: 04-06-2011 06:29 PM by Vic.)

Hi Sari,

I don't always know what you're getting at, but I think it's pretty clear here that you are against the "concept of the trinity"?

I see the way you have laid out your argument against the "concept" mimics the style of a logical argument, however, this does not make it logical, and it seems to me you have grabbed a few verses that appear to suit your conclusion, which is there is no trinity because the "concept" is not unique to Christianity."

How does marriage between man and woman - one flesh - compare to "I and my Father are one"? The contractual and physical union of a man and a woman is utterly different. In this a decision and a commitment has been made, and it is possible to break it. That God the Father, and God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are One, is something that just "is" -
no matter what explanation people try to come up with, it remains that the three are one.

[/quote]

Hi Mary!

What I'm saying is that the concept of the trinity requires a difficult explanation. The simplest solution in my mind is to conclude that Christ is literally the Son of God, as it is written.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. (KJV)

Matt 3:17
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (KJV)

Matt 8:29
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? (KJV)

Matt 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (KJV)

Matt 14:33
Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. (KJV)

Matt 27:54
Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. (KJV)

John 1:34
And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
(KJV)

Acts 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
(KJV)

Rom 1:4
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: (KJV)

I Jn 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. (KJV)

(04-05-2011 06:29 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:
Quote:He was brought forth from the Father. Just as the woman being brought forth from the man is a picture of the Son being brought forth from the Father.

According to who?

I believe it is a picture of the Father and the Son.

The Word was "with" Him and the word "was" Him.

Just something to think about.

***Vic*** · 04-06-2011, 07:20 PM

Actually Sarah, it doesn't require a complicated explanation. Not if one takes all the Scriptures pertaining to prophecy, plus what Jesus Himself said, plus what the eyewitnesses saw and believed.

For example, we see the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit mentioned all at once as a witness here:

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

The mystery of who God is and the mystery surrounding all these things can seem complicated, but God gave us all manner of Scripture and the promises so we would/could walk in faith and in fellowship with Him. Because of Jesus.

You cannot only take the verses that say He is the Son of God, because He is also called the Son of Man, and God with is,and many other titles ie

Mat 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Isa 45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Isa 40:9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
Isa 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
Isa 40:11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

<<<The Word was with Him>>>

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

You just said that ---
Jesus is the Son of God and then said "I believe it is a picture of the Father and the Son.

The Word was "with" Him and the word "was" Him>>>>

The Scripture says not only was the Word with Him and it was HIm and He created everything--which means He is God, but that "the Word became flesh and dwelt among us". Meaning that while you wish to diss 1 Timothy 3:16. and other related verses,

It upholds what was stated in Timothy, that God was manifest in the flesh., meaning Jesus is divine, and has all the attributes of God the Father, but is also fully man, being born of a virgin. Human mother, but Almighty God, His Father in order to fulfill all prophecies concerning the throne of David and the lineage necessary.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psa 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
...
Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Mary · 04-07-2011, 04:59 PM

Thank you Vic.
Sari, I remember when you joined we urged you to go back to the Scriptures, I see that Vic has laid out these important relevant verses to you and I pray that you will see the truth of them clearly and take them to heart, and especially at the last, Psalm 2 11-12. Pray through this - please don't lean on your own understanding.

sari83 · (This post was last modified: 04-07-2011 09:56 PM by sari83.)

(04-06-2011 07:20 PM)Vic Wrote: Actually Sarah, it doesn't require a complicated explanation. Not if one takes all the Scriptures pertaining to prophecy, plus what Jesus Himself said, plus what the eyewitnesses saw and believed.

For example, we see the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit mentioned all at once as a witness here:

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.[color=#1E90FF]

I see in this verse the Father and the Son. The Scriptures states that the holy spirit emanates from God, and God is spirit. The holy spirit is Him.

John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 Cor 2:12
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
(KJV)

The following verses fully affirm to me Christ's individuality.

Mat 1:22 [b]Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,
Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Zec 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
Zec 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Isa 45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Isa 40:9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, lift up thy voice with strength; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, Behold your God!
Isa 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
Isa 40:11 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Isa 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
Isa 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Psa 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psa 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

SeekTruth · (This post was last modified: 07-03-2011 11:58 AM by SeekTruth.)

Hello everyone!

May I give new life to this old thread? I have just now joined this forum to give you guys a proper insight into Oneness. Smile

I know of that carm.org link, and it's a huge misrepresentation of Oneness Pentecostalism.

Contrary to the belief of mainstream Christianity, Oneness is definitely not a heresy, but instead is actually far more bible-founded and bible-sounding than the Trinity.

I believe with all my heart that God has been revealing Himself so much to me over these last few months (and continues to do so) as I've come to fall back purely on His word, without the need to substitute, modify or enhance it with outside doctrine.