Tithing

[Vic]

I can think of a Scripture that says not to give above what we have.

2 Corinthians 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

[LindaR]

(03-25-2009 02:18 PM)Vic Wrote:  I can think of a Scripture that says not to give above what we have.

2 Corinthians 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.
12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.
13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened:

and also we are not to give "under coercion" but as he purposeth in his heart:

Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. (2 Corinthians 9:7)

[LindaR]

This is an article on "Tithing" written by my husband about a year ago:

Will A Man Rob God?
by Ronald W. Robey

On any given Sunday, there will be Pastor’s who will stand behind the pulpit and will preach a well-known message out of the 3rd Chapter of the last book of the Old Testament, Malachi.

“Will a man ROB GOD?,” will boom through the air with emphasis on ‘rob God.’ Many preacher’s will put the emphasis on ‘rob God’ to instill an automatic fear into the very minds of the hearer. It causes the automatic cringing of the people the preacher wants to put in a spirit of condemnation.

“Yet YOU HAVE ROBBED ME. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for YE HAVE ROBBED ME, even this whole nation.”

Every single believer in the congregation who is not placing money in a tithe envelope and placing it in the offering plate is automatically pointed out by this man (figuratively) who is supposed to be speaking for God as being robbers and are therefore under a curse which will NEVER BE LIFTED as long as one is disobedient to God.

This is why it is important for each and every person who has been adopted into the family of God by faith in the substitutionary blood of Jesus Christ on the cruel cross of Calvary to “Study to shew thyself approved unto God a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Jesus said in John 17 during His prayer to His Father acknowledging all that the Father gave Him these wonderful words that we all need to embrace and realize that He wants us to study diligently; “Sanctify them through Thy Truth; Thy Word is Truth.”

Once we learn that it is God’s Holy Word that sanctifies, that sets us apart from the world, that separates us from false teachings, then we have a responsibility to study that Word and begin to apply its truths to our walk. When we walk according to the Word of God, we will not be so easily swayed by preachers who do not study as they should.

Oh, but the preacher has doctorates given him by a famous seminary that has turned out many wonderful men of God! Don’t be fooled, Brethren. The only thing that will turn out a wonderful man of God is God Himself.

And the best place to go to learn who God is and what He expects of man is to the very Words of God… The Holy Bible.

In the accusation of man robbing God in today’s Christian community, a charge is generally given out of Malachi that not only was not speaking of money, but it was not speaking of the Gentile nations at all.

The Gentile nations were not required to tithe according to God's Word.

Let’s begin to look into the passage and learn what God is truly addressing when the prophet Malachi said “Will a man rob God? But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.”
First off, we must address who is being spoken to in the passage. It will shock many to realize that it was to the Israelite’s.

Look at verse five:

Malachi 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

Clearly, God is speaking about specific people here that are doing the robbing! Those who oppress or defraud their employees (servants), those who defraud the widows, the orphans, and that turn aside the stranger from his right. To see exactly what is meant here since it is speaking of tithes, we must go into the Book of Deuteronomy:

Deuteronomy 14:22-29 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year. And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always. And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee. At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates: And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Here, we learn more than just one wonderful truth.

1. We learn that the tithe was “all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.” The tithe was a yearly event, not weekly.
2. We learn that the tithe was to be eaten.
3. We learn that the purpose of the tithe is that the Israelites learn to revere the LORD their God.
4. If the tithe was too heavy to carry to the destination that the Lord had chose to place His name, the tithe could be sold for money. This tells us the tithe was not money as many have been taught in many Churches across the world.
5. Once the tither arrived at the destination that the Lord had chose to place His name, the money was to be used to buy the tithe that was to be eaten there before the Lord.
6. On every 3rd year, the tithe was not to be taken to the Levite’s who worked in the Tabernacle, but rather, the tithe was to be kept on one’s own property to feed the Levite that was living on one’s property, the widow, the orphans, and any stranger that happened to be on one’s land at the time of the tithe. These people were fed the third year tithe.
7. The Levite's that worked at the Tabernacle were the only one's who were qualified to receive the tithe of the tither for the sole purpose of their sustenance. The tithe was to be given to them because they were not allowed to own their own any property on which they could raise crops or herd livestock.

If the principle set forth in the Book of Deuteronomy was followed, the LORD God promised to bless the one who tithed of the work of his hand.

When one reads Malachi 3:5 in light of Deuteronomy 14:22-29, we see that the Levites were not following God’s command concerning the 3rd year tithe. They were not allowing the tithe to go toward feeding the less fortunate!

When God said, Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it, He was telling the tither to take his grains and meats, his foodstuff, into the barn so that there would be food for the Levite, the widow, the orphan, and the stranger living on the tither’s land.
If the tither would do this, God would cause the windows of heaven to open, the rain to fall, and the crops to increase in such a way that the tither would have more than he needed for his own self.

[Strefanash]

IT is amazing how quickly a free gift becomes something that is paid for every week by forced paying of a tenth of your income; or how a free gift becomes something paid for by any kind of forced action done any day of the week.

MOTIVE IS EVERYTHING.

IF you do it only because you have to it is in fact a dead work of law, not a living work of faith, and is in fact sin.

Do we seriously think that God ALmighty is some petty little pagan godling who needs to be fed (pagan gods needed to be fed) by our offerings, our praises, our "obedience"?

The moment our motives become legally forced we make of God this kind of pathetic being, moreover we make him out to be a complete fool who cannot tell the difference between something coughed up under extortion from some priest or pastor - the essence of human religion - and on the other hand, something joyfully cheerfully and easily given.

The gospel is not a fire inurance policy, therefore it has no premiums

To "give until it hurts" (heard that one? I have. Many times!!) means to give beyond your faith or your willingness. That is why it hurts. And God does not want it. Moreover those pastors who demanded it of you were practising the sin of simony and demanding you or I partook of it also

[sheep wrecked]

I think there are many ways of giving, not limited to cash. For some reason we equate "good stewardship" with financial responsibility when it comes to the Kingdom. What the new covenant put into effect is giving whatever God puts on one's heart by reaching out in love to one's neighbor - however He provides for that

Food, clothing, time, a ride, encouragement - it's limitless how one gives from the heart

Sharing of your life and what God has given you as a servant of the Most High, is where it's "at". Anyone who tries to twist NT standards as far as giving goes is definitely teaching false doctrine - and tithing is obviously the humongous elephant in the room

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit on the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say to them on his right hand, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 For I was an hungered, and you gave me meat: I was thirsty, and you gave me drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and you clothed me: I was sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we you an hungered, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we you a stranger, and took you in? or naked, and clothed you?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we you sick, or in prison, and came to you?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brothers, you have done it to me.

[Marcus64]

Hi!

I am still having such a hard time dealing with the fact that tithing is being taught as scriptural support for the Pastor. I was previously in a Oneness Pentecostal church that taught this false doctrine. My wife is still in the church and still believes it to be true. That would be fine, but the fact is that we cannot afford to have her pay 10% of her gross income every week. We are having serious automobile problems and can't even afford to get them taken care of, yet she still believes that she needs to give tithes every week regardless. It is taught that in Micah God is going to "curse" those who "rob" Him of the tithes. It is also taught that Paul said that he (and all of God's called , meaning Pastors) should be able to "live from the gospel" (can't remember which book or verse) meaning that they should not have to work secular jobs because the tithing is mainly to support them and take care of their needs (housing cost, utilities, etc,)
Sorry, I am venting a little. It is just frustrating to see that we are having finincial issues and even though her Pastor knows this, he tells her to "keep being faithful in giving your tithes and God will bless you for it" even if it means not being able to pay your bills. She is totally sold on the idea and won't hear any arguments against it or even look at scripture that clearly shows that the way they present it is terribly wrong. Please pray for us. Thanks for letting me vent. Have a great day!

God Bless,

Mark

[sheep wrecked]

(07-21-2009 02:17 PM)Marcus64 Wrote:  Hi!

I am still having such a hard time dealing with the fact that tithing is being taught as scriptural support for the Pastor. I was previously in a Oneness Pentecostal church that taught this false doctrine. My wife is still in the church and still believes it to be true. That would be fine, but the fact is that we cannot afford to have her pay 10% of her gross income every week. We are having serious automobile problems and can't even afford to get them taken care of, yet she still believes that she needs to give tithes every week regardless. It is taught that in Micah God is going to "curse" those who "rob" Him of the tithes. It is also taught that Paul said that he (and all of God's called , meaning Pastors) should be able to "live from the gospel" (can't remember which book or verse) meaning that they should not have to work secular jobs because the tithing is mainly to support them and take care of their needs (housing cost, utilities, etc,)
Sorry, I am venting a little. It is just frustrating to see that we are having finincial issues and even though her Pastor knows this, he tells her to "keep being faithful in giving your tithes and God will bless you for it" even if it means not being able to pay your bills. She is totally sold on the idea and won't hear any arguments against it or even look at scripture that clearly shows that the way they present it is terribly wrong. Please pray for us. Thanks for letting me vent. Have a great day!

God Bless,

Mark

Hi Mark!

We would love it if you would take a minute and introduce yourself in the Introduction Thread found here:

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=17




The problem with a 10% tithe is that it can't be found in the NT

Paul says that we are to give from the heart. James indicates that giving includes other things than money - like clothing or food. In today's world - helping others in whatever way is needed as God leads.

The OT tithe never included money [it was produce and animals and done at specific times. There were more than one tithe, by the way - I have heard a total of about 27%]. So somewhere along the line that got all twisted into the doctrine of giving money. Perhaps because Paul said that IF people wanted to give something to him they should set it aside - as they felt in their heart.

When Paul stated that leaders should receive some kind of compensation, he was not referring to giving them a salary, a house, a car, and a nice pension. Paul actually supported himself. He was a tent maker and made a huge point of instructing that one should work, not expect others to supply their needs.

I have seen many well meaning Christians try to tithe when they can't pay their own bills. This is not scriptural. When a pastor tells a person that they just need to keep tithing no matter what in order to be blessed, that is, in my opinion - magic.

Vic has a real good series on tithing found here - it's a very comprehensive look at what the tithe was and what the NT has to say on giving:

http://www.seekgod.ca/tithing.htm

[Vic]

(07-21-2009 02:17 PM)Marcus64 Wrote:  Hi!

I am still having such a hard time dealing with the fact that tithing is being taught as scriptural support for the Pastor. I was previously in a Oneness Pentecostal church that taught this false doctrine. My wife is still in the church and still believes it to be true. That would be fine, but the fact is that we cannot afford to have her pay 10% of her gross income every week. We are having serious automobile problems and can't even afford to get them taken care of, yet she still believes that she needs to give tithes every week regardless. It is taught that in Micah God is going to "curse" those who "rob" Him of the tithes. It is also taught that Paul said that he (and all of God's called , meaning Pastors) should be able to "live from the gospel" (can't remember which book or verse) meaning that they should not have to work secular jobs because the tithing is mainly to support them and take care of their needs (housing cost, utilities, etc,)
Sorry, I am venting a little. It is just frustrating to see that we are having finincial issues and even though her Pastor knows this, he tells her to "keep being faithful in giving your tithes and God will bless you for it" even if it means not being able to pay your bills. She is totally sold on the idea and won't hear any arguments against it or even look at scripture that clearly shows that the way they present it is terribly wrong. Please pray for us. Thanks for letting me vent. Have a great day!

God Bless,

Mark

Hi Mark,

Glad your login finally worked.

We know that if something is right before God, it doesn't contradict the scriptures. So if you cannot pay your bills, and other needs, then to force the tithe, or any other giving, violates the following.

1Ti 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

It becomes a horrible witness when believers don't take care of their own business, paying bills, and simply putting food on the table. etc.. What a shame it brings on our Lord, when this money grab keeps a family in financial bondage and a under such a burden. That is not what God intended.

How can anyone pray and thank God for taking care of all needs, when He has indeed provided but it is being misdirected to others. Further, a wife is under the authority of her husband--not the pastor. He is out fo line overriding what you have determined is necessary for your family. And she has missed her calling as a wife concerning submission to her OWN husband--not someone else's husband aka the pastor...

Ephesians 5:20-28 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; 21. Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26. That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27. That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

Eph 5:33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

That pastor is no shepherd of any sheep. He overturns and rejects these Scriptures. If he didn't he would be saying it's your business, between you and your wife, and all gviing is as God leads, as He provides all we have.

[Mark]

Hi Mark!

We would love it if you would take a minute and introduce yourself in the Introduction Thread found here:



Hi Sheep Wrecked!

Sorry for the confusion. I thought I had lost my login and tried under a different e-mail. I have actually been here, jsut under Mark and not Marcus64.
Anyway, thanks for the reply. This is such a tough subject for me. My wife has been taught and firmly believes that she HAS to tithe regardless. As I said, it doesn't matter what scriptures I bring her to, it has been engrained in her mind that tithing IS scriptural and NOTHING can overrule it. It's very difficult to be in a marriage where I, as the husband, have no say in our fininces when it is regarding tithing. I have to continually pray that God keep us strong in this area because it has almost broken us before. She really believes that God is providing our needs (which He is) becasuse she is faithful in tithing and any problems we have with bills, etc. is due to my lack of faith when it comes to "giving to God as He commanded us to do in the Scriptures". So, I guess I just have to ride this one out and keep praying that the Lord will open her eyes to the spiritual bondage that she is in. Thanks again for your reply. Please keep us in your prayers.

God Bless,

Mark

---

Hi Vic!

Sorry for the password problems and thank you for helping me get logged back in.
I appreciate your reply and the scriptures. Believe me when I say that we have been down those before and it is to no avail. She ahs been told that it s true about submitting to your husband EXCEPT when it comes to tithing. There, she was told, the line is drawn and the husband cannot try to tell his wife not to tithe REGARDLESS of the circumstances. If she were to do that, SHE would be robbing God. Do you see the difficulty here? I am not trying to be an iron-fisted husband that commands his wife to do everything I say. I have no authority in our marriage. It is overruled by the Pastor and what he teaches which is all this nonsense about tithing. She is firmly entrenched in this false gospel. It is really straining the marriage. I know that if it were not for God, we would probably be separated by now. Money is not the foundation of our marriage and I am not blaming tithing for all of our financial burdens, but it has definitely drained us over the last several years. Now, the current Pastor is resigning the church because there is not enough income to support him and his wife. Talk about a guilt trip! So now they are heading back to a bigger church where they will most likely not have to work secular jobs because there is enough income from tithing to support them. How sad is that? So anyway, please pray for us. Pray that God will take the scales from my wife's eyes and reveal His glorious truth and she can be set free from this doctrine which is binding her (and I). Thanks again for your help resetting my password. And thank you for your rely. Take care.

God Bless,

Mark

[sheep wrecked]

(07-21-2009 08:49 PM)Mark Wrote:  So anyway, please pray for us. Pray that God will take the scales from my wife's eyes and reveal His glorious truth and she can be set free from this doctrine which is binding her (and I). Take care.

God Bless,

Mark