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Was that a Renewed Covenant or New Covenant

Rose of Shushan

Marathon Poster


Quote:Having come off the reading of 'bechukotai- in my statutes [Lev. 26-27] in which we read of the blessings and the curse, one reads [for sake of brevity, I have not written the entire passage, but listed the verses of the passages written]:

Leviticus 26.3-13, 44-45
3 If you will follow my decrees and observe my commandments and perform them...
6 I will provide peace in the land, and you will lie down with none to frighten you;...
9 I will turn My attention to you, I will make you fruitful and increase you; and I will establish my covenant with you. ...
11 I will place my sanctuary among you; and my spirit will not reject you.
12 I will walk among you, I will be God unto you and you will be a people unto me.
14 But if you will not listen to me...[he proceeds to list a serious of bad that will happen to Israel in different stages].
44 But despite all this, while they will be in the land of their enemies, I will not have been revolted by them nor will I have rejected them to obliterate them, to annul my covenant with them- for I am Hashem, their God.
45 I will remember for them the covenant of the ancients, those whom I have taken out of the land of Egypt before the eyes of the nations, to be a God unto them-- I am Hashem

Lev 26:44 And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.
Lev 26:45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

This was fulfilled and came to pass when they were exiled to Babylon. Even though they were in the land of their enemies ie Babylon God looked after them,indeed we see in Jeremiah how God warned them to heed His commands to go to Babylon and not to go to Egypt instead.

God did then bring them back and we can read all about it in Ezra and Nehemiah.

Quote:The prophets all spoke in this manner, as we find in the Torah, that Israel will return to God nationally in the future.
To suggest, as some have posted, that the return from Babylon was the fulfillment of the promise, is not fully accurate, because we do not see all the promises fulfilled.
I am not sure what you mean by nationally? You even underlined it.
The prophets never promised a mass return of all those exiled, on the contrary they said only a remnant would. One of Isaiah's sons that were to be for signs and wonders was called Shear yashuv which means a remnant will return.
The ones that did return though, were blessed and they did multiply and many gentiles also became proselytes and fulfilled the relevant prophecies. The leaders though again strayed and the people ended up like sheep without a shepherd and under roman domination.Eventually God sent the promised Saviour and King who would deliver them from a bondage greater than those of the Romans .The Kingdom though was a heavenly kingdom and those looking for it on earth were sorely disappointed.

Maybe you could go through some of the things you say were unfulfilled and discuss them.

Quote:People imagine that 'cirumcision of the heart' is something new...but in fact it was in the Torah. It dawned on me this Shabbat to suggest that what is meant by saying, Hebraic mindset [which I often see people attack], is to look at things through the lenses of the TaNaKh [ie 'OT'], first. Then read the passages of the 'NT', and understand them. Likewise, the context of the times in which the 'authors' of the NT were living.

As Christians that is what we normally do..we look at the New Testament based on what we already know in the Old. To me and many Christians, the division is purely in the covenants but our Bible is one and both OT and NT carry equal weight. Between the OT and NT ie Malachi to the Gospels were just 400 or so years.
I would say we do use a Hebraic mindset.The problem with this Hebraic mindset is that some now have turned that term into something totally different.It now becomes a Talmudic mindset for many in messianic circles. And they try to view the NT and even OT from the viewpoint of your post Temple sages .To me this makes no sense.
I got into the study of Talmud and some other writings to better understand my jewish brothers in order to witness to them but its crazy for me to see how Christians are turning to these writings for wisdom and a greater insight. Its preposterous since these sages have had to make do with what they have in the face of losing the temple,priests and prophets after the rejection of their Saviour and Redeemer.Why would a Christian who has the truth turn to them for guidance and study.For all their study they reject the One that God sent.


Messages In This Thread
RE: Was that a Renewed Covenant or New Covenant - by strefanash - 12-24-2008, 02:51 AM
RE: Was that a Renewed Covenant or New Covenant - by strefanash - 12-24-2008, 10:44 PM
RE: Was that a Renewed Covenant or New Covenant - by strefanash - 02-04-2009, 02:39 AM
RE: Was that a Renewed Covenant or New Covenant - by Rose of Shushan - 05-22-2011, 03:48 PM

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