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What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
12-09-2008, 03:21 PM
Post: #1
What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
You've heard of Messianic Jews, Messianics, Hebrew Roots, Hebraic Roots, so what's the difference, or is there a difference?

Vic
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3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-13-2008, 06:51 PM
Post: #2
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(12-09-2008 03:21 PM)Vic Wrote:  You've heard of Messianic Jews, Messianics, Hebrew Roots, Hebraic Roots, so what's the difference, or is there a difference?

Yes, there is a difference...thankfully. :D As a Messianic Jew, here is how I see the definitions:

Messianic Jews = Jews who have accepted Yeshua (Jesus) as Lord and Savior, and worship in a culturally Jewish context. However, this does not make us any more valid then any other cultural expression of faith.
Messianics = Same as above, but may also refer to those of other cultures that are members of a Messianic Jewish Congregation.
Hebrew Roots = Well, this is where things CAN get fuzzy. As a Messianic Jew, when I say Hebrew Roots, I am meaning the valid spiritual roots of Christianity. Like an ancestry of sorts. However, this does not mean that a Christian must worship like a Jew. Some see the Hebrew Roots of their faith as something they must do, or abide by...I just dont see it like that.
Hebraic Roots = I see this term as the same as Hebrew Roots....maybe I am wrong. :shy:

Rob
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12-13-2008, 08:31 PM
Post: #3
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(12-13-2008 06:51 PM)Rob Wrote:  
(12-09-2008 03:21 PM)Vic Wrote:  You've heard of Messianic Jews, Messianics, Hebrew Roots, Hebraic Roots, so what's the difference, or is there a difference?

Yes, there is a difference...thankfully. :D As a Messianic Jew, here is how I see the definitions:

Messianic Jews = Jews who have accepted Yeshua (Jesus) as Lord and Savior, and worship in a culturally Jewish context. However, this does not make us any more valid then any other cultural expression of faith.
Messianics = Same as above, but may also refer to those of other cultures that are members of a Messianic Jewish Congregation.
Hebrew Roots = Well, this is where things CAN get fuzzy. As a Messianic Jew, when I say Hebrew Roots, I am meaning the valid spiritual roots of Christianity. Like an ancestry of sorts. However, this does not mean that a Christian must worship like a Jew. Some see the Hebrew Roots of their faith as something they must do, or abide by...I just dont see it like that.
Hebraic Roots = I see this term as the same as Hebrew Roots....maybe I am wrong. :shy:

Rob

Glad you have your definitions handy:D

One of the issues that happens with the term Messianic Jews is that it can also and does, apply to Jews practicing Judaism who believe there will be a Messiah--although they reject Christ. They also believe in an Messianic period---do you see this as hindering their coming to Christ by using the same terminology?

I've quoted some who are absolutely disgusted by some within Hebrew or Hebraic Roots because of the often Gentiles pretending to be Jews and attempting to utilize what they perceive correct customs, dress etc, and yet this turns practicing Jews away because they think they are merely Christians hiding and trying to proselytize when in fact many reject Christ--or end up rejecting Him. Do you see this as an issue?

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-13-2008, 10:39 PM
Post: #4
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(12-13-2008 08:31 PM)Vic Wrote:  
(12-13-2008 06:51 PM)Rob Wrote:  
(12-09-2008 03:21 PM)Vic Wrote:  You've heard of Messianic Jews, Messianics, Hebrew Roots, Hebraic Roots, so what's the difference, or is there a difference?

Yes, there is a difference...thankfully. :D As a Messianic Jew, here is how I see the definitions:

Messianic Jews = Jews who have accepted Yeshua (Jesus) as Lord and Savior, and worship in a culturally Jewish context. However, this does not make us any more valid then any other cultural expression of faith.
Messianics = Same as above, but may also refer to those of other cultures that are members of a Messianic Jewish Congregation.
Hebrew Roots = Well, this is where things CAN get fuzzy. As a Messianic Jew, when I say Hebrew Roots, I am meaning the valid spiritual roots of Christianity. Like an ancestry of sorts. However, this does not mean that a Christian must worship like a Jew. Some see the Hebrew Roots of their faith as something they must do, or abide by...I just dont see it like that.
Hebraic Roots = I see this term as the same as Hebrew Roots....maybe I am wrong. :shy:

Rob

Glad you have your definitions handy:D

One of the issues that happens with the term Messianic Jews is that it can also and does, apply to Jews practicing Judaism who believe there will be a Messiah--although they reject Christ. They also believe in an Messianic period---do you see this as hindering their coming to Christ by using the same terminology?

I've quoted some who are absolutely disgusted by some within Hebrew or Hebraic Roots because of the often Gentiles pretending to be Jews and attempting to utilize what they perceive correct customs, dress etc, and yet this turns practicing Jews away because they think they are merely Christians hiding and trying to proselytize when in fact many reject Christ--or end up rejecting Him. Do you see this as an issue?

It's possible it could hinder their coming to Him. I have found that many Jews dont believe in Yeshua because they are simply taught that by believing in Him they will no longer be Jews. The issue of the term "Messianic Jew" seems to be secondary from what I've seen.

I have seen many issues with the "Hebrew Roots Movement" similar to what you have mentioned. It is an issue, and really doesnt do any good when speaking in evangelistic terms. Anything thats not the full truth is a lie.
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12-14-2008, 11:38 AM
Post: #5
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
Quote:I've quoted some who are absolutely disgusted by some within Hebrew or Hebraic Roots because of the often Gentiles pretending to be Jews and attempting to utilize what they perceive correct customs, dress etc, and yet this turns practicing Jews away because they think they are merely Christians hiding and trying to proselytize when in fact many reject Christ--or end up rejecting Him. Do you see this as an issue?

Vic,
I totally agree with that.Messianics seem to think that jewish people will be flattered or "made jealous" however,many are certainly provoked ,but not to jealousy.
Put it this way. Many jews believe that they have survived as a people thanks to them having kept the shabbat and the faith as a whole.The traditions accquired over the centuries have helped to shape them as a people and keep them close and reasonably insulated from assimilation.To then see gentiles take on things and traditions which make them feel close and one as a people like for example, the use of tzit tzit,use of their own siddur, the passover seder ,etc is baffling and at worst an intrusion.Many feel as the things that they had to make them feel one and set apart unto God are now being taken over.And by Christians at that.
Personally I also find that Jews have no problems(usually) with me being a Christian but if someone tells them theyre Messianic then things immediately turn defensive.
Many messianics do these things out of love for the traditions not to be intentionally harmful, but I do believe we have to be sensitive and not cause these jewish brothers to stumble.
It always amuses me to hear messianics with no yiddish connections whatsover say "oy vey " Rolleyes

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
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06-29-2009, 11:42 PM
Post: #6
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
Quote:I totally agree with that.Messianics seem to think that jewish people will be flattered
I can tell you most definitely they are wrong about that Smile

Quote:It always amuses me to hear messianics with no yiddish connections whatsover say "oy vey "
I agree....it's as silly as me going to the 'hood and trying to speak Ebonics.
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06-30-2009, 11:49 AM (This post was last modified: 06-30-2009 12:52 PM by Vic.)
Post: #7
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(06-29-2009 11:42 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote:  
Quote:I totally agree with that.Messianics seem to think that jewish people will be flattered
I can tell you most definitely they are wrong about that Smile

Quote:It always amuses me to hear messianics with no yiddish connections whatsover say "oy vey "
I agree....it's as silly as me going to the 'hood and trying to speak Ebonics.

I have some friends that think they will make the Jews jealous for Messiah if they (Gentile Christians) practice some Jewish things (i.e. Jewish Music, observe feasts, sabbath, etc, etc.) I have never agreed and don't think that is what Paul was trying to say in His letter to the Christians in Rome. about making "his people" jealous. This just confirms what I have thought. God is not making the Jews jealous because we can observe the Law, too. The purpose of the Law was given to show us that we were utterly incapable of keeping it and needed a Savior that through faith, God imputed righteousness to us based on Faith, alone. The same faith that Abraham exercised and God credited righteousness to him also.

Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
Gen 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


I love these verses in the Torah, because in the New Testament it shows parallels to the faith of Abraham and our faith in God through the Messiah, is also credited to us as righteousness. It is basically the same FAITH.

I lived in Israel for 5 months and lived specifically in Bethlehem with the Arabs for half the time and worked on a Kibbutz (Kibbutz Einat) for the other half. When I lived in Bethlehem, I used to go Jerusalem everyday, get a couple of falafels and just explore the Old City of Jerusalem and the New City. It was a great learning experience. I even enrolled in Hebrew University for a short time to study Arabic. I did this when I was living in Bethlehem and thought that it would be helpful. As it was, I ended up leaving Bethlehem and living on a Kibbutz which was another incredible experience. My job was to milk 250 cows each day (no, not by hand).

But, in all my dealings with the Jewish people, it never occurred to me that if I just practiced some of their customs or obeyed some of their laws, they would be jealous for Messiah. I prayed at the Wailing Wall side by side with them. I was respectful, but when I bowed my head and prayed, I was thanking the Messiah for coming and I am sure some of them were praying for Him to come. I was praying that God would cause the scales to fall off of their eyes that they would see who Yeshua/Jesus is. I felt like dancing and rejoicing but repressed the urge to do so.


Maybe I just didn't get it. I have been accused of being thick-headed once or twice in my life. But back then, (1979), I don't recall the Messianic Movement being like it is today. I may be wrong. I met and worshipped with Messianics in Jerusalem. I love the Hebraic songs, still do and I can enter in and worship God, easily. I was a very young Christian then, "wide eyed" and just overjoyed to be living in Israel. A lot of things may have gone unnoticed by me. Maybe God was protecting me and keeping me from the Messianic Judaism.

I do love Genesis 15:1 HE is certainly our exceeding great reward.

Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
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06-30-2009, 12:43 PM
Post: #8
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(06-30-2009 11:49 AM)heb13-13 Wrote:  Maybe I just didn't get it. I have been accused of being thick-headed once or twice in my life. But back then, (1979), I don't recall the Messianic Movement being like it is today. I may be wrong. I met and worshipped with Messianics in Jerusalem and on the Kibbutz (we had to be careful). I love the Hebraic songs, still do and I can enter in and worship God, easily. I was a very young Christian then, "wide eyed" and just overjoyed to be living in Israel. A lot of things may have gone unnoticed by me. Maybe God was protecting me

Rick, those Messianics were not trying to be something they aren't. The Messianics in the USA are about 95% gentiles trying to play the dress up Jewish game by taking on their practices and traditions to be more spiritual. They have no clue, or perhaps don't even care, that they are offending the Jewish people. They believe they have a superior understanding of what it means to be "real Jews" and many of them even believe they are really Jews by bloodline and rightfully "own" a piece of "The Land" [Israel] and are seeking to make "alliyah". There are plenty of scams out there for unwary ignorant Messianics [promoted by money hungry gentiles] who think that Israel is going to allow them to become citizens. They are in for a shock.

Back in 1979 there wasn't much of a Messianic movement in the states - I would say the last 10 years it has exploded. In my opinion, it's going to overwhelm the christian church in general here. I can see the signs of the infiltration of Jewish traditions by the boatload these days.

I have also seen some videos of true Israeli Messianics and they are nothing like what is in the states. To them it is real - they know the truth and live it as true Jewish converts, not fakes like there are here.
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06-30-2009, 12:48 PM
Post: #9
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(06-30-2009 12:43 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  
(06-30-2009 11:49 AM)heb13-13 Wrote:  Maybe I just didn't get it. I have been accused of being thick-headed once or twice in my life. But back then, (1979), I don't recall the Messianic Movement being like it is today. I may be wrong. I met and worshipped with Messianics in Jerusalem and on the Kibbutz (we had to be careful). I love the Hebraic songs, still do and I can enter in and worship God, easily. I was a very young Christian then, "wide eyed" and just overjoyed to be living in Israel. A lot of things may have gone unnoticed by me. Maybe God was protecting me

Rick, those Messianics were not trying to be something they aren't. The Messianics in the USA are about 95% gentiles trying to play the dress up Jewish game by taking on their practices and traditions to be more spiritual. They have no clue, or perhaps don't even care, that they are offending the Jewish people. They believe they have a superior understanding of what it means to be "real Jews" and many of them even believe they are really Jews by bloodline and rightfully "own" a piece of "The Land" [Israel] and are seeking to make "alliyah". There are plenty of scams out there for unwary ignorant Messianics [promoted by money hungry gentiles] who think that Israel is going to allow them to become citizens. They are in for a shock.

Back in 1979 there wasn't much of a Messianic movement in the states - I would say the last 10 years it has exploded. In my opinion, it's going to overwhelm the christian church in general here. I can see the signs of the infiltration of Jewish traditions by the boatload these days.

I have also seen some videos of true Israeli Messianics and they are nothing like what is in the states. To them it is real - they know the truth and live it as true Jewish converts, not fakes like there are here.

Sheep Wrecked,

I concur and think you are absolutely right! The Messianics I met were Sabras who put their faith in Yeshua. But, I never recall all this other baggage in their lives that I see today in the States. Obviously, Yeshua was more than enough for them.

Thanks for your response and I believe it helps clarify things.

Jer 12:5 If thou hast run with the footmen, and they have wearied thee, then how canst thou contend with horses? and if in the land of peace, wherein thou trustedst, they wearied thee, then how wilt thou do in the swelling of Jordan?
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01-27-2010, 11:49 AM
Post: #10
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(12-09-2008 03:21 PM)Vic Wrote:  You've heard of Messianic Jews, Messianics, Hebrew Roots, Hebraic Roots, so what's the difference, or is there a difference?

Honestly, in usage... Not much difference. The movement started in the 1950s andd was called the Hebrew-Christian movement by many of its earliest teachers such as David ben Lew and Zola Levitt.

but it was found to be confusing and too much like the misnomer Juudaic-Christian and was being taken as too rabbinic.

By the 1980s with bands like Lamb and Mr David Stern working a a new "Jewish New testament" there was a desire to sound "more christian" or as the hebrew would have it, more "messianic".

the idea was to start a reformation of Jews who became believers. And therefore a new term which was "more Jewish": i.e. Messianic Judaism.

Funny, this new term is more accurate. Judaism is the term for modern phariseeism. they do not follow the Torah or Tanach (Old Testament) but rather the Talmud and Rabbinic Tradition are supreme.

So, Messianic judaism is really a term for the christian ***** of the book of acts. Anyone see the irony here?

And now, almost 60 yearrs later, we see it full force where they even teach two paths two salvation, one for the gentile and one for the jew.


SECOND:

A secondary difference and more simplified current usage between the two terms is that a Hebrew-Christian is a gentile christian which now follows the teachings of Messianic Jews which follow the teachings of the Orthodox Rabbis (Pharisees) in a "christianized manner".

Not that it is possible to christianize something which Jesus condemned!

Anyone else notice that a Biblical Israeli is one whose FATHER is an Israeli. But according to the Pharisees; One is a Jew whose MOTHER is a Jew!

So you see, it is true, a Jew and a Biblical Israeli are not the same. Neither are their Religions.

One came out of Abraham who was told to LEAVE Babylon.

The other came out of The Rabbis which STAYED in Babylon!
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