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What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
07-03-2011, 04:51 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2011 05:06 PM by Rap_Rabbi.)
Post: #11
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
Shalom,
I'm going to test this first and make sure I understand how to post here.
Testing to see how to post

(06-30-2009 12:48 PM)heb13-13 Wrote:  
(06-30-2009 12:43 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  
(06-30-2009 11:49 AM)heb13-13 Wrote:  Maybe I just didn't get it. I have been accused of being thick-headed once or twice in my life. But back then, (1979), I don't recall the Messianic Movement being like it is today. I may be wrong. I met and worshipped with Messianics in Jerusalem and on the Kibbutz (we had to be careful). I love the Hebraic songs, still do and I can enter in and worship God, easily. I was a very young Christian then, "wide eyed" and just overjoyed to be living in Israel. A lot of things may have gone unnoticed by me. Maybe God was protecting me

Rick, those Messianics were not trying to be something they aren't. The Messianics in the USA are about 95% gentiles trying to play the dress up Jewish game by taking on their practices and traditions to be more spiritual. They have no clue, or perhaps don't even care, that they are offending the Jewish people. They believe they have a superior understanding of what it means to be "real Jews" and many of them even believe they are really Jews by bloodline and rightfully "own" a piece of "The Land" [Israel] and are seeking to make "alliyah". There are plenty of scams out there for unwary ignorant Messianics [promoted by money hungry gentiles] who think that Israel is going to allow them to become citizens. They are in for a shock.

Back in 1979 there wasn't much of a Messianic movement in the states - I would say the last 10 years it has exploded. In my opinion, it's going to overwhelm the christian church in general here. I can see the signs of the infiltration of Jewish traditions by the boatload these days.

I have also seen some videos of true Israeli Messianics and they are nothing like what is in the states. To them it is real - they know the truth and live it as true Jewish converts, not fakes like there are here.

Sheep Wrecked,

I concur and think you are absolutely right! The Messianics I met were Sabras who put their faith in Yeshua. But, I never recall all this other baggage in their lives that I see today in the States. Obviously, Yeshua was more than enough for them.

Thanks for your response and I believe it helps clarify things.


I'm still not sure if this is working but anyway...
I'm Rabbi Stanley. I'm a Messianic Rabbi who's lived in Israel for 19 years and was raised in the Messianic Movement. My dad is also a Messianic Rabbi who's been in the movement for over 40 years now. I rarely go to discussion boards etc anymore but I thought maybe I could shed some light on this topic here. I'm not trying to brag etc by giving my background, I'm just trying to give an idea for those who care to listen so they can see where I'm coming from.
There's nothing wrong with Gentile Christians trying to become Messianic Jews just as in Judaism there is nothing wrong with Gentiles converting to Judaism. Gentiles have been converting to Judaism since Abraham. Nothing on this matter changed when Yeshua came. In my opinion, all Gentile Believers in Yeshua will one day be Messianic anyway so why not start keeping His Holy Laws now? I know there are Messianics out there who do not feel that Gentiles are supposed to keep the same laws as Jewish Believers are supposed to keep. This is an error however. I don't have much time but I would suggest that there are not 2 Torahs, one for the Gentiles and one for the Jews. We will all be keeping the same Laws during the Last Days. Convert now and get closer to G-d now, there's no need to wait whether you are born a Jew or not. Thanks for your time.

(07-03-2011 04:51 PM)Rap_Rabbi Wrote:  Shalom,
I'm going to test this first and make sure I understand how to post here.
Testing to see how to post

(06-30-2009 12:48 PM)heb13-13 Wrote:  
(06-30-2009 12:43 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  
(06-30-2009 11:49 AM)heb13-13 Wrote:  Maybe I just didn't get it. I have been accused of being thick-headed once or twice in my life. But back then, (1979), I don't recall the Messianic Movement being like it is today. I may be wrong. I met and worshipped with Messianics in Jerusalem and on the Kibbutz (we had to be careful). I love the Hebraic songs, still do and I can enter in and worship God, easily. I was a very young Christian then, "wide eyed" and just overjoyed to be living in Israel. A lot of things may have gone unnoticed by me. Maybe God was protecting me

Rick, those Messianics were not trying to be something they aren't. The Messianics in the USA are about 95% gentiles trying to play the dress up Jewish game by taking on their practices and traditions to be more spiritual. They have no clue, or perhaps don't even care, that they are offending the Jewish people. They believe they have a superior understanding of what it means to be "real Jews" and many of them even believe they are really Jews by bloodline and rightfully "own" a piece of "The Land" [Israel] and are seeking to make "alliyah". There are plenty of scams out there for unwary ignorant Messianics [promoted by money hungry gentiles] who think that Israel is going to allow them to become citizens. They are in for a shock.

Back in 1979 there wasn't much of a Messianic movement in the states - I would say the last 10 years it has exploded. In my opinion, it's going to overwhelm the christian church in general here. I can see the signs of the infiltration of Jewish traditions by the boatload these days.

I have also seen some videos of true Israeli Messianics and they are nothing like what is in the states. To them it is real - they know the truth and live it as true Jewish converts, not fakes like there are here.

Sheep Wrecked,

I concur and think you are absolutely right! The Messianics I met were Sabras who put their faith in Yeshua. But, I never recall all this other baggage in their lives that I see today in the States. Obviously, Yeshua was more than enough for them.

Thanks for your response and I believe it helps clarify things.
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07-03-2011, 07:09 PM (This post was last modified: 07-03-2011 07:10 PM by Rose of Shushan.)
Post: #12
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
Hi Stanley,welcome! I'm sure we will be in for some interesting discussion.

Quote:There's nothing wrong with Gentile Christians trying to become Messianic Jews just as in Judaism there is nothing wrong with Gentiles converting to Judaism. Gentiles have been converting to Judaism since Abraham. Nothing on this matter changed when Yeshua came. In my opinion, all Gentile Believers in Yeshua will one day be Messianic anyway so why not start keeping His Holy Laws now?
Would those be Sinai Laws? Some of us here,myself included, believe that those laws belonged to a different covenant than the ones we believers in Jesus enter into.


Quote:Convert now and get closer to G-d now, there's no need to wait whether you are born a Jew or not. Thanks for your time.

Convert to what? And to get closer to Jesus? Does that mean that as christians we are lacking something? If so what is it that we lack that we obtain by converting?
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12-04-2011, 01:07 PM
Post: #13
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(12-09-2008 03:21 PM)Vic Wrote:  You've heard of Messianic Jews, Messianics, Hebrew Roots, Hebraic Roots, so what's the difference, or is there a difference?
So, since you thought it so good to delete my now post because I'm a "newbie" as you put it, and since I could of placed it in any of these area's, I will put it and more in here.
See, I'm not trying to be a hater, unlike I see so much hate going on here. You and others here have wasted soooo much time and energy being critical and hateful on the so called Hebrew roots people. I notice when I read what you have to say, about their believe, is how you ever so slightly change a few things in order to make your points. Why is it in your heart to want to hurt people and cause so much strife? You all act like you have everything all figured out,and your way and your religion is the only way to believe. And that my friend is completely untrue. Our God is a loving caring understanding Father. HE sees the heart of us all and knows the heart of us all. And HE is the only being that can know the heart of Man. Have the problem with Christianity is just the very thing going on on this forum. Self righteousness, and judgment on others. I mean I'm sure your gonna delete this "reply" also, but, as i had said earlyer .
I just have to say that I've read alot of your posts and topics and It appears that your main objective to cause division and discontent. Adonai is the God of love and peace If HE is in you then you would not make it your your mission to be causing Division and grief. Just because you don't agree with everything these teachers say, does not make them the anti-Christ. You are not the judge and have no right to so seriously judge them the way you do. No man knows the heart except for the Father.
To say that because someone Honors Adonai by keeping the feast's the best they can or to keep the commandments Of YHWH, that they are completly wrong, is just ludicrous. And then to think that it may be better to keep the clearly pagan feast's of Christmas and Easter? That they are more in line with our King, then the real Feast's, is again, ludicrous. I pray that you would stop being so critical of other's and maybe just focus on being the best you can be for the sake of the work done on the cross for us all. Remember That Yeshua said he is the way,truth and life. And in psalms 119:142 it clearly says that the "Torah is Truth". Since HE was the living walking breathing "word or Torah" then why would he make void himself? You made a comment that the commandments were nailed to the cross. I say that your right, the Law, Torah, commandments, the Word, however you want say it, were indeed nailed to the cross. And was also resurrected. So therefore HE and all he represented now still lives. So, by no means is the Torah dead and gone. For one thing the very word "law" is wrong, it actually means Torah, which really means "instruction", as in the instruction of our Loving, caring and almighty Father. And HE lovingly gave us all those instructions to live by so we could live by faith and belief in his ways. If you want to put it in a very simple way you could put it like this. Adonai is the Lord of his house and if you want to live in the father's house then you need to follow the rules of HIS house. And if you think you can just cast aside the Father's rules of the house, and HE will let you do that but, Your gonna be tossed out of HIS house. If you by any means think that The Father does not have rules for being in HIS house and remaining in HIS house, then you are sadly mistaken and obviously wrong. So please why not try to share the perfect love of Our most Awesome and Great King. And don't try to be the judge of other people's Faith and Love for the Father's house.
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12-04-2011, 01:25 PM
Post: #14
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(12-04-2011 01:07 PM)Mark_R Wrote:  
(12-09-2008 03:21 PM)Vic Wrote:  You've heard of Messianic Jews, Messianics, Hebrew Roots, Hebraic Roots, so what's the difference, or is there a difference?
So, since you thought it so good to delete my now post because I'm a "newbie" as you put it, and since I could of placed it in any of these area's, I will put it and more in here.
See, I'm not trying to be a hater, unlike I see so much hate going on here. You and others here have wasted soooo much time and energy being critical and hateful on the so called Hebrew roots people. I notice when I read what you have to say, about their believe, is how you ever so slightly change a few things in order to make your points. Why is it in your heart to want to hurt people and cause so much strife? You all act like you have everything all figured out,and your way and your religion is the only way to believe. And that my friend is completely untrue. Our God is a loving caring understanding Father. HE sees the heart of us all and knows the heart of us all. And HE is the only being that can know the heart of Man. Have the problem with Christianity is just the very thing going on on this forum. Self righteousness, and judgment on others. I mean I'm sure your gonna delete this "reply" also, but, as i had said earlyer .
I just have to say that I've read alot of your posts and topics and It appears that your main objective to cause division and discontent. Adonai is the God of love and peace If HE is in you then you would not make it your your mission to be causing Division and grief. Just because you don't agree with everything these teachers say, does not make them the anti-Christ. You are not the judge and have no right to so seriously judge them the way you do. No man knows the heart except for the Father.
To say that because someone Honors Adonai by keeping the feast's the best they can or to keep the commandments Of YHWH, that they are completly wrong, is just ludicrous. And then to think that it may be better to keep the clearly pagan feast's of Christmas and Easter? That they are more in line with our King, then the real Feast's, is again, ludicrous. I pray that you would stop being so critical of other's and maybe just focus on being the best you can be for the sake of the work done on the cross for us all. Remember That Yeshua said he is the way,truth and life. And in psalms 119:142 it clearly says that the "Torah is Truth". Since HE was the living walking breathing "word or Torah" then why would he make void himself? You made a comment that the commandments were nailed to the cross. I say that your right, the Law, Torah, commandments, the Word, however you want say it, were indeed nailed to the cross. And was also resurrected. So therefore HE and all he represented now still lives. So, by no means is the Torah dead and gone. For one thing the very word "law" is wrong, it actually means Torah, which really means "instruction", as in the instruction of our Loving, caring and almighty Father. And HE lovingly gave us all those instructions to live by so we could live by faith and belief in his ways. If you want to put it in a very simple way you could put it like this. Adonai is the Lord of his house and if you want to live in the father's house then you need to follow the rules of HIS house. And if you think you can just cast aside the Father's rules of the house, and HE will let you do that but, Your gonna be tossed out of HIS house. If you by any means think that The Father does not have rules for being in HIS house and remaining in HIS house, then you are sadly mistaken and obviously wrong. So please why not try to share the perfect love of Our most Awesome and Great King. And don't try to be the judge of other people's Faith and Love for the Father's house.

Which part of my PM to you did you not understand Mark, concerning why your thread was deleted? Did I not point you to the forum rules ALL MEMBERS ARE REQUIRED TO READ AND ABIDE? Did I not provide to you the complete rule concerning newbies NOT starting new threads? Did I not completely point out to you that rule applies to ALL MEMBERS?

And here you are trying to make it as if the content of that attempted thread was why it got deleted. As I stated very clearly to you, after quoting that rule from the link provided to you, and I quote from that PM,


"So in case you want to claim that the deletion of your thread "Division and murmuring" is due to 'censorship' or trying to hide the truth or some other absurd accusation, know that it is simply because you started a thread and newbies are not allowed to start threads according to the forum rules for ALL members. And if you wish to say something on this forum, the first thing you are requested to do is READ and ABIDE the forum rules. If you think the forum rules don't apply to you, then please do move on to some other forum. "


So yes Mark your thread was deleted , and it was not as you said with the veiled implications, "So, since you thought it so good to delete my now post because I'm a "newbie" as you put it,"

It was 'good' and right to delete that thread, only because you chose to be ignorant and not abide the forum rules right from the start. Just as we have seen so many others with the same attitude do.

Speaking of passing judgment on people, did you actually read your post?

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-04-2011, 04:55 PM
Post: #15
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
Mark_R
Quote:So, since you thought it so good to delete my now post because I'm a "newbie" as you put it, and since I could of placed it in any of these area's, I will put it and more in here.
See, I'm not trying to be a hater, unlike I see so much hate going on here.

Since you don't know someone's heart, you are making false accusation. And an arrogant comment to boot. Proving all things, questioning and challenging is hardly 'hate'. Rather it is obedience to the Word of God. Making sure what we believe aligns the Word of God is what we as believers are called to. And what has been proven is that HR is found wanting, and many are being pulled away from Jesus Christ because of it.

Quote:You and others here have wasted soooo much time and energy being critical and hateful on the so called Hebrew roots people.

Since I don't know of any Christian posters that hate others let lone HR, this is pretty much scraping the bottom of the barrel to make a false accusation. And obviously you have not bothered to read anything except about HR, because there's much more about Christianity but tunnel vision rather limits your ability to see what is being said to begin with.

Quote:I notice when I read what you have to say, about their believe, is how you ever so slightly change a few things in order to make your points.

Could you provide some specific sources for your accusation? And what is it that is being changed in order to make 'my' points? Who are you referring to? Me? Ten other posters? PLease be specific as to do otherwise is to falsely accuse a lot of people. And we know according to you, that you aren't being deliberately "critical and hateful" towards all the so called Christians here are you?

Quote:Why is it in your heart to want to hurt people and cause so much strife? You all act like you have everything all figured out,and your way and your religion is the only way to believe. And that my friend is completely untrue. Our God is a loving caring understanding Father. HE sees the heart of us all and knows the heart of us all. And HE is the only being that can know the heart of Man.

If you have read my posts, you would know I absolutely believe God alone knows hearts. However, He did provide His Word so by reason of use we would be able to discern between truth and error, good and evil, and identify those who are or who are not His and promoting sound doctrine of Scripture. And that's the issue and problem you are having trouble understanding. You don't seem to think we are to weigh what is taught and presented as truth against the Scriptures. Well actually, you think HR can say what they want and it must be right but Christians are all messed up and totally wrong. I think that's called unequal weights and measures and in layman's terms hypocritical. It's ok for you to spew unfounded accusation but
we aren't supposed to discuss, Biblically analyze using source material or do critical review of HR?


Heb 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.
Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. [/b]


Quote:Have the problem with Christianity is just the very thing going on on this forum. Self righteousness, and judgment on others. I mean I'm sure your gonna delete this "reply" also, but, as i had said earlyer .

Really? Eyerub And you know it's going to be deleted because there's obviously no other posters who have falsely accused us before, or who have had temper tantrums and spewed all manner of junk about me or the forum or other posters---and yet their posts are still there. Smack

You obviously haven't read much on the forum or you would know we don't hide from critics or false accusations. We tend to take them head on.

Fyi< I had actually saved your original thread, and was considering starting a thread about it. But hey, you want to spew and make all sorts of false accusations and show who you are, go for it. Just be sure you are ready for a reasoned and Biblical response. 15249


Quote:I just have to say that I've read alot of your posts and topics and It appears that your main objective to cause division and discontent.

Of the 7,815 posts, how many do you suppose you actually have read? and has it been with an open and reasoning mind, instead of a condemning and not going to receive anything contrary to what you want to believe attitude? And how many of my articles on my website have you read? Have you studied the documented facts and the Scriptures or just had a knee jerk and emotional reaction that you are not going to listen to anything but HR? 2743 Because obviously they must all be right because you agree with them... We are warned about those who bring in doctrine different than found in the Scriptures and particularly contrary to the NT.

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Tit 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Tit 3:11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.


Quote:Adonai is the God of love and peace

That is all you know of God? God is also a God of Righteousness, Justice, Judgment, He is a Jealous God, Longsuffering, Wrathful [Ex 34:6-7] Just, Sovereign and so much more.

Jesus said:
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.


Luk 12:49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Luk 12:50 But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
Luk 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And
again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.


Quote:If HE is in you then you would not make it your your mission to be causing Division and grief. Just because you don't agree with everything these teachers say, does not make them the anti-Christ. You are not the judge and have no right to so seriously judge them the way you do. No man knows the heart except for the Father.

Mark, Are you so unfamiliar with the Scriptures that you can only vent and give your opinion and indignation with no Scripture to back up that opinion? We are called to make righteous judgment about doctrine, based on the Word of God, and there are many warnings concerning that. We are called to reprove things and discern between good and evil. That means making right judgments based on the Word of God. You need to gain some Biblical understanding before you proceed further in your false accusations.

The term 'discern' explains much in what we are to do. From Strong's Concordance:


<discern > 1253. diakrisiv diakrisis, dee-ak'-ree-sis from 1252; judicial estimation:--discern(-ing), disputation.
See Greek 1252 (diakrino)


Diakrino, which also means to discern, was used by Jesus many times in the Gospels, and throughout the New Testament, and in part means >1252. diakrinw diakrino,>"from 1223 and 2919; to separate thoroughly, i.e. (literally and reflexively) to withdraw from, or (by implication) oppose; figuratively, to discriminate..."

Judicial estimation is 'expressing careful judgment', 'making fine distinctions' and using discernment which comes from studying and applying the Word of God, which is the Sword of the Spirit.

Reprove: "...find fault with; blame...reprove, rebuke=criticize or blame someone for a fault.

Reprove suggests expressing disapproval or blame directly to the person at fault...with the purpose or hope of correcting the fault..." [Dictionary of Canadian English]

Disputation DISPUTATION, n. [L.] [Webster's 1828 Dictionary] "1. The act of disputing; a reasoning or argumentation in opposition to something, or on opposite sides; controversy in words; verbal contest, respecting the truth of some fact, opinion, proposition or argument."


If ungodly behavior and wicked or false doctrine is being practiced by those claiming to be of Christ, it should be exposed and reproved--that's Biblical. As is using Biblical discernment.

Ephesians 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.


1 Thessalonians 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil. 23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.


We are called to discern between good and evil by applying the Scriptures. Heb 5:13-14 We are called to try the spirits. 1 John 4:1 We are called to prove all things and prove what is acceptable to the Lord. We are told we will know false teachers by their fruit--and that comes from applying the Word of God to their claims. We are warned about deceptions, doctrines of demons, false teachers and false prophets, unsound doctrine, heresies and many other things and we are called to reprove the fruitless deeds of darkness. That means making decisions about
our beliefs and understandings based on the Word of God.

We don't judge the hearts, nor could we, although it appears by your accusations that perhaps you do. God does know hearts. But we are required to try the spirits and test the fruit...and that is what this web site is about.


>>>> continued....

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-04-2011, 05:00 PM
Post: #16
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
Mark_R
Quote:To say that because someone Honors Adonai by keeping the feast's the best they can or to keep the commandments Of YHWH, that they are completly wrong, is just ludicrous.

If you have read things as you say, you will know Scripturally why they are not keeping the feasts according to what God COMMANDED. You just said they are trying to keep them the best way they can---but they are not abiding the commandments that were dictated by God in how they were to be kept. You can't say according to the commandments and then dismiss them. That means incurring the curses associated with those commandments which were given specifically to Israel--not anyone else. There's all sorts of threads dealing with these issues which you are welcome to read and keep to topic there. For Example:

Rosh Hashanah http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=891
Are We Commanded to Observe the Mosaic Law [Torah]? http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=61
Feast of Tabernacles http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=500
Pentecost/Shavu'ot http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=333
Did Jesus Fulfill All the Feasts? http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=63

Articles > http://www.seekgod.ca/topichr.htm#faq3 http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs3a2.htm#feasts ;
http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs4c.htm http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs3a2.htm#kosher
http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs4a2.htm#2 http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs4a2.htm#3


Quote:And then to think that it may be better to keep the clearly pagan feast's of Christmas and Easter? That they are more in line with our King, then the real Feast's, is again, ludicrous.

Your comments suggests how little you actually have read here. However those issues are addressed in these and other threads. Take your complaints to them please and do try to stay on topic, unlike what you have done here.

Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas? http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=35
Easter or Passover? Passover or the Lord's Supper? http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=215
Is Easter Pagan? http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=641

Articles > The Legend of Hanukkah http://www.seekgod.ca/legend.htm
Questions About Christmas http://www.seekgod.ca/christmas.htm
The Elimination of the Cross http://www.seekgod.ca/crossandstar.htm
http://www.seekgod.ca/hr/hrfaqs4a2.htm#5


Quote:I pray that you would stop being so critical of other's and maybe just focus on being the best you can be for the sake of the work done on the cross for us all. Remember That Yeshua said he is the way,truth and life. And in psalms 119:142 it clearly says that the "Torah is Truth". Since HE was the living walking breathing "word or Torah" then why would he make void himself? You made a comment that the commandments were nailed to the cross. I say that your right, the Law, Torah, commandments, the Word, however you want say it, were indeed nailed to the cross. And was also resurrected. So therefore HE and all he represented now still lives. So, by no means is the Torah dead and gone.

To complete the reference Mark,
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.


And Psalm 119:142 states: Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.

And look at the prior verses: Psa 119:138 Thy testimonies that thou hast commanded are righteous and very faithful.
Psa 119:139 My zeal hath consumed me, because mine enemies have forgotten thy words.
Psa 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.
Psa 119:141 I am small and despised: yet do not I forget thy precepts.


Of course God's law is the truth and every one of His Word's, every precept and testimony faithful, pure and true. Who has said otherwise?And until Christ, all of Israel was bound to abide and obey the commandments within Mosaic law, but there is far more to God's Word and law than found there. When Christ
came, being the fulfillment of the law and the prophets, The Salvation of God; He is the New Covenant and brought in the New Covenant. We are to follow the law of Christ... see these Scriptures: Ephesians 2:14-15; Colossians 2:14-17; Hebrews 7,8,9

The ordinances and commandments of the law were nailed to the cross Mark. THese things are all discussed in other threads and articles and you need to take your complaints about them to those sections.

Does Jesus bring a new Torah with the New Covenant? http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=29
Was that a Renewed Covenant or New Covenant http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=12
Keep the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday & Rest in Christ http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=65
Those antinomian christians... http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=206
Did Jesus Destroy or Fulfill the Law http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=77
Circumcision in the New Covenant http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=56


Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and
unprofitableness thereof.

Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of MelchisedecSmile
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. [/b]


disannulling >G115
ἀθέτησις
athetēsis
Thayer Definition:
1) abolition, disannulling, put away, rejection
Part of Speech: noun feminine


>>>>continued...

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-04-2011, 05:05 PM
Post: #17
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
Mark_R
Quote:For one thing the very word "law" is wrong, it actually means Torah, which really means "instruction", as in the instruction of our Loving, caring and almighty Father. And HE lovingly gave us all those instructions to live by so we could live by faith and belief in his ways. If you want to put it in a very simple way you could put it like this. Adonai is the Lord of his house and if you want to live in the father's house then you need to follow the rules of HIS house. And if you think you can just cast aside the Father's rules of the house, and HE will let you do that but, Your gonna be tossed out of HIS house. If you by any means think that The Father does not have rules for being in HIS house and remaining in HIS house, then you are sadly mistaken and obviously wrong.

You would do well to pay attention to what is being said here. The commandments of Christ are part of the "better testament." Christ is ruler over His own house. Not like Moses was a servant and the law which were shadows of things to come.

Heb 3:1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Heb 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.

Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Heb 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;

Heb 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.


Concerning the commandments of Christ, and the doctrine found in the New Testament:

Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


1Pe 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
1Pe 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
1Pe 2:3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.

1Pe 2:4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
1Pe 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. [/b]


See the above links in the prior posts and also: http://www.seekgod.ca/topichr.htm#faq2


Quote:So please why not try to share the perfect love of Our most Awesome and Great King. And don't try to be the judge of other people's Faith and Love for the Father's house.

Actually, Mark, since you have not shared the Gospel nor Christ, I am not going to duplicate what you are about. I suppose the questions are who is Jesus Christ to you, and what does the New Testament actually mean to you? And despite your attempt to claim to be non judgmental, your post is filled with self righteous judgments and false accusation. Please consider what is being pointed out to you.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2Ti 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-05-2011, 12:02 AM
Post: #18
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
Mark you said,..See, I'm not trying to be a hater, unlike I see so much hate going on here. You and others here have wasted soooo much time and energy being critical and hateful on the so called Hebrew roots people.


Mark,I am new here to.I have read a LOT of the material on this site.I have not yet read every single thing here..but I can say that I have read much more than half of the material that is offered here.
I have not found any hate here,NONE.If I had read anything hateful I would have stopped visiting here.I think you and others that may be reading this are seeing this site as attacking others and being critical of others BUT..if you read CAREFULLY it is doctrines and the perpetuation of falsehoods that are being disputed here NOT people.
We can not know the hearts of men.We can hear what they say though and if by comparison they speak contrary to the Holy Word of God, then we have a glimpse of their heart. That's right! We get a little peak into a man's heart by what he speaks.


Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. (KJV)

So if a persons' mouth has an "abundance" of lies.Then it is safe to say their heart has an "abundance" of lies also.
Some of the fruits of the Spirit...

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Hmm..I don't seeing lying in there.I don't see teaching/preaching false doctrines in there either.
Lying is not a fruit of the Spirit of the Living God..Hmm, Where does it come from?

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The DEVIL is the father of LIES!
Don't take my word for anything...go read the bible for yourself.
Don't just blindly follow anyone..seek out the truth for yourself by prayer and studying the word of God...and I type all this in love. Smile

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.(2John 1:9)
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12-05-2011, 12:41 AM
Post: #19
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
(12-04-2011 01:25 PM)Vic Wrote:  
(12-04-2011 01:07 PM)Mark_R Wrote:  
(12-09-2008 03:21 PM)Vic Wrote:  You've heard of Messianic Jews, Messianics, Hebrew Roots, Hebraic Roots, so what's the difference, or is there a difference?
So, since you thought it so good to delete my now post because I'm a "newbie" as you put it, and since I could of placed it in any of these area's, I will put it and more in here.
See, I'm not trying to be a hater, unlike I see so much hate going on here. You and others here have wasted soooo much time and energy being critical and hateful on the so called Hebrew roots people. I notice when I read what you have to say, about their believe, is how you ever so slightly change a few things in order to make your points. Why is it in your heart to want to hurt people and cause so much strife? You all act like you have everything all figured out,and your way and your religion is the only way to believe. And that my friend is completely untrue. Our God is a loving caring understanding Father. HE sees the heart of us all and knows the heart of us all. And HE is the only being that can know the heart of Man. Have the problem with Christianity is just the very thing going on on this forum. Self righteousness, and judgment on others. I mean I'm sure your gonna delete this "reply" also, but, as i had said earlyer .
I just have to say that I've read alot of your posts and topics and It appears that your main objective to cause division and discontent. Adonai is the God of love and peace If HE is in you then you would not make it your your mission to be causing Division and grief. Just because you don't agree with everything these teachers say, does not make them the anti-Christ. You are not the judge and have no right to so seriously judge them the way you do. No man knows the heart except for the Father.
To say that because someone Honors Adonai by keeping the feast's the best they can or to keep the commandments Of YHWH, that they are completly wrong, is just ludicrous. And then to think that it may be better to keep the clearly pagan feast's of Christmas and Easter? That they are more in line with our King, then the real Feast's, is again, ludicrous. I pray that you would stop being so critical of other's and maybe just focus on being the best you can be for the sake of the work done on the cross for us all. Remember That Yeshua said he is the way,truth and life. And in psalms 119:142 it clearly says that the "Torah is Truth". Since HE was the living walking breathing "word or Torah" then why would he make void himself? You made a comment that the commandments were nailed to the cross. I say that your right, the Law, Torah, commandments, the Word, however you want say it, were indeed nailed to the cross. And was also resurrected. So therefore HE and all he represented now still lives. So, by no means is the Torah dead and gone. For one thing the very word "law" is wrong, it actually means Torah, which really means "instruction", as in the instruction of our Loving, caring and almighty Father. And HE lovingly gave us all those instructions to live by so we could live by faith and belief in his ways. If you want to put it in a very simple way you could put it like this. Adonai is the Lord of his house and if you want to live in the father's house then you need to follow the rules of HIS house. And if you think you can just cast aside the Father's rules of the house, and HE will let you do that but, Your gonna be tossed out of HIS house. If you by any means think that The Father does not have rules for being in HIS house and remaining in HIS house, then you are sadly mistaken and obviously wrong. So please why not try to share the perfect love of Our most Awesome and Great King. And don't try to be the judge of other people's Faith and Love for the Father's house.

Which part of my PM to you did you not understand Mark, concerning why your thread was deleted? Did I not point you to the forum rules ALL MEMBERS ARE REQUIRED TO READ AND ABIDE? Did I not provide to you the complete rule concerning newbies NOT starting new threads? Did I not completely point out to you that rule applies to ALL MEMBERS?

And here you are trying to make it as if the content of that attempted thread was why it got deleted. As I stated very clearly to you, after quoting that rule from the link provided to you, and I quote from that PM,


"So in case you want to claim that the deletion of your thread "Division and murmuring" is due to 'censorship' or trying to hide the truth or some other absurd accusation, know that it is simply because you started a thread and newbies are not allowed to start threads according to the forum rules for ALL members. And if you wish to say something on this forum, the first thing you are requested to do is READ and ABIDE the forum rules. If you think the forum rules don't apply to you, then please do move on to some other forum. "


So yes Mark your thread was deleted , and it was not as you said with the veiled implications, "So, since you thought it so good to delete my now post because I'm a "newbie" as you put it,"

It was 'good' and right to delete that thread, only because you chose to be ignorant and not abide the forum rules right from the start. Just as we have seen so many others with the same attitude do.

Speaking of passing judgment on people, did you actually read your post?

I wasn't trying to make it out to be anything but what it was. I did not say you deleted my post unfairly. I said you deleted it because I'm a newbie. All the reasons you had given me for the deletion were quite long and very clear. Yes you are right I should have just replied instead of making a new post. No I didn't read all your rules for a newbie making a new post. So sorry to violate your rules. And I'm not passing a judgment on you I'm making a observation as a "newbie" on what I have read and what I see. Sorry your not open to a "Newbies" input as to what they might see and feel about your wonderful site. It sure wouldn't take much for someone other then your own group, to see how negitive and hateful so many of your topics are to people in the Hebrew roots groups. Maybe you could consider having a "newbie" area so, that you could actually see how new people might think and feel about what you have to say. I mean seriously, look how you lash out at just me for giving my opinions and not having "replied in the all so proper form. Clearly you don't like what I have to say since it probably doesn't line up with you views and opinions. Sorry I'm not as the same mind as you are about these things. But, all this hate and discontent is just incredible to me.
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12-05-2011, 01:16 AM
Post: #20
RE: What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
Mark can you post a link to where on the site this hatred is so I can read it for myself,please?

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.(2John 1:9)
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