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Is Islam a "Religion of Peace"

Vic
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#1
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Is Islam a religion of peace as many posit? Are wars and aggressive actions recorded through history, just outdated information about how Muslims view the world today? Are some peaceful while others not? Do sects of Islam get along with others of various beliefs within their own religion? Or with those of other religions?
Is Islam political as well as a religion and how does that affect relationships with others?

Th_ththink
Vic
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3John 1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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Star
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#2

(03-05-2016, 04:50 PM)Vic Wrote: Is Islam a religion of peace as many posit? Are wars and aggressive actions recorded through history, just outdated information about how Muslims view the world today? Are some peaceful while others not? Do sects of Islam get along with others of various beliefs within their own religion? Or with those of other religions?
Is Islam political as well as a religion and how does that affect relationships with others?

Th_ththink

I have been looking into this issue.  Especially after Obama misquoted from the Quran. He was attempting to say that Islam does not permit terrorism and said, "Islam prohibits terrorism, for the Quoran says whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind." But it does not say that at all. He was supposed to be quoting from the Quoran 5:32 which says, "Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors."
It then goes on to say what transgressors will receive as punishment. I have found a very good site, well, so far I believe it is as far as information about Islam.  It is called jihadwatch. The guy who has the site has written some good books.  He was on CRI with Hank Hanengraff recently and gave a very good 3 part interview with Hank.  It is in the archives to listen to. I hope it is OK to talk about the sites. I am not posting any direct link. 
From all the information I have been looking at recently it would seem that if we are not converts to Islam, then we are all infidels. No if, ands or buts about it. According to the Quoran a Muslim is allowed to lie to infidels and make us believe they are of no harm to us.  I have in the past worked with Muslims. They did exactly what it has been told in the Quoran. Made "friends" with me and then told me that, "we are serving the same God after all." That more insight into God could be gained through Islam and reading the Quoran.  When I heard this guys interview, my blood ran cold. It was about 12 years ago that I worked around a group of Muslims. I think Christians could do well to spend a little time looking into what they believe and how they really view us Christians. It is very eye opening for sure.
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Lois
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#3
(This post was last modified: 07-04-2016, 02:52 PM by Lois. Edit Reason: grammar )

I think there are several factors that need to be considered when attempting to reconcile Muslims, and their supporters, always saying they are a peaceful religion in spite of the fact that we are constantly hearing about the violent acts perpetrated by Muslims.

One thing that most people may not be aware of is that the Quran has this doctrine called abrogation.I'm probably over simplifying it but the way I understand it is that the newest revelation of Muhammad cancels out the older contradicting verse.This is why the Quran can have completely contradicting verses without it being an issue to it's followers.

This doctrine of abrogation allows them to be able to embrace the verses of peace and also the later verses that command them to kill Christians, Jews and hypocrites, without an issue.

The verses from the Quran on abrogation.

Quran 2:106—"None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?"

Quran 16:101—"When We substitute one revelation for another, – and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),– they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not."

They use verses such as Quran 2:256 that says "There is no compulsion in religion" to claim that they are a religion of peace, which could be true if there were no other verses in the Quran explaining how they are to deal with unbelievers.They don't seem to be making people aware of this doctrine of abrogation, which essentially voids all the verses pertaining to peace.

Quran 2:256—"There is no compulsion in religion; truly the right way has become clearly distinct from error; therefore, whoever disbelieves in the Shaitan and believes in Allah he indeed has laid hold on the firmest handle, which shall not break off, and Allah is Hearing, Knowing."

Something else that also needs to be taken into consideration is that Muslim's are allowed to practice something called Taqiyya.-Which can also be spelled Taqiyyah, Takiya.

Taqiyya, as I understand it, allows Muslims to deceive unbelievers if they are in fear of persecution, or to protect Islamic communities.

Quran 3:28- "Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security.

Muslims are allowed to outwardly fain friendship and peace with unbelievers but inwardly hold to the commandments to fight and, or kill all unbelievers.

Quran 9:73—"O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them."

Quran 9:29—"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran 9:123—"O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran 48:29—"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves."

Quran 98:6-"Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Quran and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures."

Quran 47:4-"So when you meet those who disbelieve [in battle], strike [their] necks until, when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds, and either [confer] favor afterwards or ransom [them] until the war lays down its burdens. That [is the command]. And if Allah had willed, He could have taken vengeance upon them [Himself], but [He ordered armed struggle] to test some of you by means of others. And those who are killed in the cause of Allah - never will He waste their deeds."

In Quran 47:4 it states that Allah doesn't kill the disbelievers himself but commands believers to do it as a way of testing them.

There is also this issue of cultural Muslims verses what I'm gonna call true Muslims. We have the same issue in Christianity. It's where a person is born in a certain region so that means they are a Christian, or because a person's parents where Christians that means they are one to but they have never read the Bible, or practiced any form of Christianity.

I think what we have in some instances are people claiming to be Muslim who have probably never read the Quran, and have no clue what it teaches, proclaiming it to be a religion of peace, which true adherents to the Quran would consider them hypocrites and they are subject to the same violence as unbelievers.
Then we have moderate Muslims that have read the Quran and choose to disregard, or gloss over all the verses commanding violence towards unbelievers, or they could be practicing Taqiyya, which allows them to be deceptive to unbelievers, but they would have to convert to being a true adherent to the teachings of Muhammad, or be considered a hypocrite and subject to the same violence as unbelievers.
Then we are left with the true adherents to the teachings of the Quran who are allowed to practice Taqiyya(deceiving unbelievers for the sake of Islam) claiming it is a religion of peace but their actions testify to the contrary.  

So, my opinion based on my understanding and research, is that it is not a religion of peace but some are blinded to the fact it is violent and others that know the truth of the violence that Allah commands in the Quran towards unbelievers have the freedom of glossing over it, or are afforded the luxury of not strictly adhering to those verses about violence towards unbelievers for the time being, they could be faced with the ultimatum to fully convert, or be killed in the future(who knows) and then we have other strict adherents that are allowed to be deceptive in saying it is a religion of peace.

I hope this wasn't confusing. Beatredsmile
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.(2John 1:9)
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AsAChild
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#4

Forced conversions=not peaceful
Kill those who will not convert=not peaceful
Codone rape=not peaceful
Suicide=not peaceful

I could go on but this should suffice. 

Islam is more of a political movement than a religion.
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Vic
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#5

It's interesting that if one reads the Quran, the Hadith and other commentary upheld by many Islamic believers worldwide, particularly in Muslim countries , one cannot ignore what is said with regards to:

1) apostates--meaning any that do not agree with those writings or who negate some of it or reject some of it. Also for any that turn away and reject Islam in it's entirety after having been a Moslem.

2) those who are not part of Islam, who have clearly rejected Islam by choice, who have other beliefs, such as Christianity or Judaism, or any belief different than what Islam holds as it's beliefs.

3) the end goal of Islam is to have a world caliphate--meaning all will be subjugated by or 'removed' if they do not accept Islam and it's laws and beliefs. Whether "moderate" or fringe Moslems agree, and want this, the full application of the teachings means abiding by the Quran and Hadith etc for all aspects of life, thinking, and activities. That's why we see Islamic countries as so different than western culture. There is no democracy or voting on what or who is acceptable or deciding for ones self what they would/should/could believe and do. It's right from the top down what to believe and the dire consequences of not living under that Sharia law and related beliefs.

4) to take whatever means necessary for the Jihad or struggle to attain the worldwide caliphate and acceptance or conversion of Islam by all people.

This is so different than what Jesus called us to. To go into all the world and preach the gospel...and whoever believes and accepts Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord has eternal life. One Scripture speaks of having "your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace" [Ephesians 6:15]

Jesus said His people would not fight because, "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight,..." Nor are there to be 'forced conversions', although some have very corrupted that belief over the years. It's a spiritual battle. And no one comes to Christ without the Holy Spirit opening their understanding, and God drawing them.
Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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milordsheep
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#6

They can claim it to be a religion of peace, just like I can claim to be Abraham Lincoln... it does not make it so.
Just as we Christians may very well be the first gospel others read; the same can be said of the adherents of the Quran. Just as the Bible teaches we are being transformed into the likeness, of our Savior, so also will the followers of Islam become like the god they serve.
That being said; when one observes the fanatical hatred; the obsessive drive to create fear and chaos; the absolute disregard for the value of life made in the Creator's Image...  it is unmistakeable who is driving them and who controls their souls...no rational mind can possibly accept their "religion" as the Truth...
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Vic
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(09-05-2016, 11:03 AM)milordsheep Wrote: They can claim it to be a religion of peace, just like I can claim to be Abraham Lincoln... it does not make it so.
Just as we Christians may very well be the first gospel others read; the same can be said of the adherents of the Quran. Just as the Bible teaches we are being transformed into the likeness, of our Savior, so also will the followers of Islam become like the god they serve.
That being said; when one observes the fanatical hatred; the obsessive drive to create fear and chaos; the absolute disregard for the value of life made in the Creator's Image...  it is unmistakeable who is driving them and who controls their souls...no rational mind can possibly accept their "religion" as the Truth...

Hi milordsheep, Nice to see you posting again.

Followers of Islam are so varied in what they accept and who they accept as their teachers/leaders and their interpretations. Hence all the infighting within the scope of Islam and how it can vary with the different sects and even tribes.

It's interesting that the Muslims that I worked with years ago, and we all became family friends---many other workers would not even want to talk with them. They assimilated into Canada, dressed Canadian, voted, agreed with democracy, celebrated Christmas etc. I babysat for them at times, and one family, our son and their son became best friends--the children rejected the Muslim beliefs incidently and refused to go to the mosque. But these people would view themselves as Canadian and they kept their beliefs private although we had many conversations about our beliefs and how they differed. They would be viewed as apostates by many Muslims in Canada and the US today and definitely in Muslim countries. IN other words, according to the Quran they would be dealt with as apostates.

I think that deceiving and being deceived is part of the worldwide spiritual decline and it is no different for people who are brought up in whatever other belief systems. Islam is very definitely political and then governing every aspect of life. And those who fully believe the Quran and their Imam's teachings about it, are 'trained in it' from small children. A precept that Mohammed likely borrowed from 'Train up a child in the way he should go".... as he wanted Jews and Christians to accept him as the final prophet. And when they wouldn't, he began his jihad and war that historically spread across the middle east and Europe, Asia etc. Absolutely driving people with fear and chaos, and as the one quote speaks of how he himself declared he conquered through terrorism.

Many who are Muslims have never actually read the Quran, Hadith or other writings for themselves, but have simply followed what they are told because that is one of the teachings, their leaders are there in place of Mohammed and to be listened to. How often have we seen that condition even in Christianity. The leaders are the ones to interpret and tell each what to believe.

People who buck that system have already been taught that they would be killed if they leave Islam. So they are held captive, in a sense, by fear of what will happen if they think for themselves and adopt different interpretations than what the established authorities have taught them. Islam fully suppresses critical thinking and that is why we are hearing of the many  accusations of Islamophobia, racist, bigot, etc when people do question it, or want to even understand it. That's also why Islamic groups push for the legal suppression of any criticisms regarding their beliefs. They don't want anyone to question or dig in and find out for themselves the truth about what is within those writings.  If it's so good and everyone should embrace it, everyone should be able to dig in and discover it for themselves. But that is not considered acceptable.

I think that God is at work, opening understanding and bringing many out of the many deceptions out there, including Islam's many beliefs. I think that's why we need to discuss it here and gain an understanding of what it is, the teachings, including what is taught about the Bible, Jesus, etc. We need to be informed so we can help others understand that Jesus is the only Way, the Truth and the Life. And no one comes to Father but through Him.
Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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