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Poll: Who/what do you think Donald Trump serves?
The God of Israel
Money, i.e. mammon
Power
Himself
All of the above except the first
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Note: This is a public poll, other users will be able to see what you voted for.


Trump: serving God? Mammon? Himself?

YYZ Skinhead
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#1
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Mat 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Luk 16:13
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.



Who/what do you think The Donald Trump serves?  I have no way of knowing if he is saved, but he seems very, VERY fond of money.  And of himself.
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Vic
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#2

The problem with polls is they dictate an outcome. And unless the questions cover all possible options, it may not reflect the answer that some might think.


First, I think it's important to note that many to most politicians in US and many other countries are or have been wealthy---and some would say most politicians are well paid and others would say overpaid.

One could look at the Bush's, Reagan, Clinton's etc as examples and look at European leadership also. So Trump being a wealthy business man is not unusual in the scheme of things. God puts/allows whom ever into governments to fulfill His purposes. And those purposes will be fulfilled.

God did not forbid wealth. Look at Solomon, Abraham and his descendents were given much. Look how Job was blessed after losing everything in those trials.

Gen 13:2  And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

Job 1:1  There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job 1:2  And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
Job 1:3  His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

Mat 27:57  When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
Mat 27:58  He went to Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded the body to be delivered.

So it's not having wealth that's the issue. It's loving it and focusing on it rather than acknowledging love of God and serving God and knowing all one has comes from God to be used to honor and glorify Him and for His purposes. Money like anything else can be used to further the gospel and help others.

1Ti 6:17-18
(17)  Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
(18)  That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19  Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Luk 19:2  And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
Luk 19:3  And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
Luk 19:4  And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
Luk 19:5  And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
Luk 19:6  And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.

Jas 1:8  A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Jas 1:9  Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted:
Jas 1:10  But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away.

So even a wealthy man can come to Christ and be forgiven and serve Him. And be used by God to show all things are possible with God.

But if a person's heart is not content in Christ, not only spiritually with what they have or have been given, then:

1Ti 6:6  But godliness with contentment is great gain.
1Ti 6:7  For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.
1Ti 6:8  And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:9  But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
1Ti 6:10  For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1Ti 6:11  But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
1Ti 6:12  Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.

Is Trump a Christian? Unknown. Some say he did accept Christ. That doesn't mean he should dump what he has--that's between Him and God if Trump indeed does belong to Christ. No one knows what he does to help others behind the scenes or what he may give away to help others. I have seen some reports that he tends to help others without seeking applause. Good for him if he does.

He may also have run for president because he genuinely believes he could help people and his country. And he is getting jobs going etc. so people can support themselves. Despite all the negative rhetoric. He's there because God purposed him to be president, just as Justin Trudeau is in power to fulfill what will happen according to God's purposes. And believe me--we pray for govt's world wide knowing that the wickedness, deceptions and horrific policies that are contrary to God are being made world wide. BUt we are called to watch and pray.

However, in saying that, spiritually one has to look at things from that perspective. Trump was in a 'laying hands on' prayer time' in the oval office--I think it was yesterday. THe articles I read state "evangelical" leaders layed hands on and prayed for him.

That was referring to such like Paula White, Rodney Howard Browne and his wife, Pat Robertson and others. (They also prayed form Obama when he was in office.)
But the point is---charismatics doing laying on of hands on Trump...speaking in tongues etc.

Let's look at a few quotes from:

Pentecostal, Shepherding & Charismatic Movements  http://www.seekgod.ca/topicwaves.htm

MORE Manifestations, LESS Bible!      http://www.seekgod.ca/more.htm

Quote:No man of God would tell you to disobey or set aside God’s word. This mentality of setting aside the Scriptures for emotion and experience is no different than such like John Wimber or Rodney Howard-Browne who has said such things as:

         'Don't let the Bible get in the way of the blessing.'

             'Some of you Bible-lovers need to put-it down and let God work on you.'

             ‘The Bible has let us down. It has not delivered the numbers we need.'

             'You must not let your mind hinder the receiving of the blessing.'  59.  

We are reminded in Psalm 119:11 -

“Thy word have I hid in mine heart that I might not sin against thee.”

John Goodman, who had been a pastor in the Vineyard for eight years and traveled extensively with John Wimber, wrote of the loss of focus from the Bible and the consequences of involvement in the New Age.  

    "Deviation from the Word of God, and the use of extra-biblical sources of teaching have led John Wimber and the Vineyard into many New Age/occultic, shamanistic beliefs and activities, such as inner healing, aura reading, and manipulation, astral projection (i.e., out of body experiences) and contact with familiar spirits..." 60
 

Quote:Their behavior, words and “power” over the Spirit called upon in their meetings is no different than Rodney Howard Browne, who launched his career from an Assemblies of God Church. Browne also thinks Charles Parham and William Branham are great men of God. His words for directing the ‘spirit” echo Frisbee and many others:

      "Come!!! Now!!! There it is right now. There it is right now. The Power of God is beginning to fall. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth be filled. Be filled...There it is all over this building. Right now the power of God is beginning to fall. I loose the very touch of heaven now, in Jesus' name... The fire of God is beginning to fall all over this place, all over this place...Just receive it...Like a river [8 times] Let it flow like a river."  63
 
I have read some comments that suggest that "christian" people are viewing Trump as a savior to free speech, freedom of being able to practice their beliefs without interference etc.

Those types of things suggest something far different than simply a non-Christian who became president. And who may or may not have claimed to believe Jesus Christ.

Mat 7:14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21  Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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Vic
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#3

I was reminded of a few things.

I wanted to point out also, that for many years Trump was applauded for his business sense and financial success by people of all political, business and religious persuasions. His trademark name was used worldwide by businesses--and now liberals and others are wanting to distance themselves from that name---even though it made them $$$. People wanted his financial success.


Years ago I wrote about Knighthood=Manhood? and the promotion of the book, The Masculine Journey by Robert Hicks. http://www.seekgod.ca/knights.htm
Promise Keepers and Dobson really pushed the concepts of men and boys needing to become like knights in order to be spiritually, emotionally and physically mature and successful.. But in the Masculine Journey, Donald Trump (along with Oliver North and Martin Luther King) was promoted as a "contemporary warrior" example that men should strive to follow ---because men have lost being warriors etc. Incidentally David was listed as the 'Biblical character' to follow.

The character and character attributes ascribed to Trump, etc and 'initiation rituals desired> competing, winning conquering, first blood, first win/sale, first conflict resolved. Being a warrior takes courage, strength, moral conscience and following those men and their "success".

Those men were listed as examples as mentors, according to Hicks,  and meant they have strength and ethical insight---of course Hugh Hefner was listed as an example in another section, as was Jim Bakker and others.

Apparently many in Christian leadership were in agreement and believed those listed as 'desired or 'necessary' concepts, good character and positive attributes aren't found or are lacking within the Scriptures?

2Ti 3:13-17
(13)  But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
(14)  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
(15)  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
(16)  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
(17)  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Rom 8:31-39
(31)  What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
(32)  He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
(33)  Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
(34)  Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
(35)  Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
(36)  As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
(37)  Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
(38)  For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
(39)  Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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YYZ Skinhead
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#4
(This post was last modified: 07-14-2017, 12:48 PM by YYZ Skinhead.)

Sorry for turning this thread into a poll. I didn't know posting a poll was a bad idea. Can you delete the poll part of it (and this request to delete the poll) without deleting the thread? I would like to reply to what you posted but it will take a while.
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Vic
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#5

(07-14-2017, 12:40 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote: Sorry for turning this thread into a poll.  I didn't know posting a poll was a bad idea.  Can you delete the poll part of it (and this request to delete the poll) without deleting the thread?  I would like to reply to what you posted but it will take a while.

Oh no, don't misunderstand. POlls can work, but I just find I feel constrained with most. They can be effective. No need to delete this. Some might find it gives the options just fine. BUt I find the topic of Trump so complex and can't solidify my thoughts in that way. So just carry on with it, and not sure how many are around right now that will answer, but ....looking forward to your thoughts.
Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4  I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31  But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

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