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The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
12-11-2008, 01:04 PM
Post: #1
The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
The ISR is well used and promoted within Hebrew Roots. Lets look as some facts concerning this translation:

What the so called unnamed translators of this ISR "bible" did, was to take a text that was used in the translation of the KJV Bible, and then alter it by inserting other texts in various areas to promote an anti Christian theological bias. This version alters key passages that would demonstrate the Deity of Christ. The late Chris "CJ" Koster was one of the people apparently involved with this project. A perusal of the numerous articles written by Mr. Koster, reveals that he called his messiah YAHshua (he insisted that the Name Jesus was "pagan).

Koster also wrote a book called "Come out of her my people" which is also heavily promoted within HR. In Koster's book, it was stated that all things that Christians believe originated from paganism, including the words Lord, God, Jesus, etc. He did not believe that Jesus was divine, denying His Deity, and therefore denying Him as the Christ. Mr. Koster also taught that the Name of Jesus was the same as zeus, which many HR associates also claim, and are also just as wrong.

One of the distributors for his ISR "bible" listed all of the words that were removed from his "translation" because of their supposed pagan origin.

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Scriptures/...eathen.htm

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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03-24-2009, 04:00 PM
Post: #2
RE: The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
I have never heard of the "ISR" bible. What do the letters "ISR" stand for?
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03-24-2009, 04:28 PM
Post: #3
RE: The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
(03-24-2009 04:00 PM)LindaR Wrote:  I have never heard of the "ISR" bible. What do the letters "ISR" stand for?

Hi Linda,

ISR is Institute for Scripture Research which published their The Scriptures. Many refer to it as the ISR simply to clarify what Scriptures are being discussed. I probably should have clarified that info. Blush

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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03-24-2009, 04:50 PM
Post: #4
RE: The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
(03-24-2009 04:28 PM)Vic Wrote:  
(03-24-2009 04:00 PM)LindaR Wrote:  I have never heard of the "ISR" bible. What do the letters "ISR" stand for?

Hi Linda,

ISR is Institute for Scripture Research which published their The Scriptures. Many refer to it as the ISR simply to clarify what Scriptures are being discussed. I probably should have clarified that info. Blush
Thanks Vic! From the description in the OP, it sounds like another "perversion". There are just so many "new" perversions of God's Word being published in these last days. This is just another sign that time is about to wrap up.
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03-24-2009, 05:01 PM
Post: #5
RE: The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
Yes, it's one of several in the HR camp. Here's some more information on it.

The ISR uses the Textus Receptus [NT] and the Masoretic text [OT] as it's base text. Those are the same base texts for the King James Version. They then modified those texts as they saw fit, by utilizing the Nestle-Aland texts and Shem Tob.

From Tyndale, discussing the ISR sources:
]"... The Old Covenant is based on the Massoretic Hebrew and Aramaic text, according to the 1937 edition of Kittel's Biblia Hebraica. The New Covenant is based on the Textus Receptus, being modified with the use of such other texts as the Nestle-Aland and Shem Tob, as seemed appropriate. ..." 14 http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Scriptures/SISR.htm

Unfortunately, after use of the corrupted Alexandrian texts as well as Shem Tob Matthew, the ISR inserted their "choice" of sacred names, which compiled into a pseudo "corrupt" KJV version.

The ISR omits the reference to the Messiah's Deity [Theos/God] from 1 Timothy 3:16. They clearly did not follow the Received Text on this and other very definitive passage that illustrates the Deity of The Messiah. For those important verses such as Colossians 2:9, the ISR appears to have switched to the Alexandrian text, which is what the Westcott and Hort, Nestle Aland and other base texts are and which most new Bible translations are based on.

For example, the NIV, which has been used extensively in Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA) documents, for example, such as their Statement of Faith.

Surprisingly, Colossians 2:8-9 is actually not used in relation to the Deity of Christ, in the MJAA statement of faith. The NIV states:


Colossians 2:8-9
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Colossians 2: 8-9
KJV - Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

LITERAL - Watch that there not be one robbing you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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03-24-2009, 07:18 PM (This post was last modified: 03-24-2009 07:19 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #6
RE: The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
Here is some more info on the ISR that was compiled into a nice doc Smile The ISR is one of the favorite Bibles in the Messianic HR movement - as popular as the Complete Jewish Bible, I would say.

Quote:Here is an example of how the ISR changes doctrine to fit their personal theology by changing words and meanings that were writtten in the Greek and the Hebrew manuscripts. Keep in mind, that this is only one of the many, but it seriously alters the truth of the Scriptures as given by God Almighty.


Matthew 26:28 ( see also Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:25)

28 “For this is My blood, that of the renewed covenant, which is shed for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Mark 2
21 “And no one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, otherwise the renewed piece pulls away from the old, and the tear is made worse.

John 13
34 “A renewed command I give to you, that you love one another, as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

2 Corinthians 3
6 who also made us competent as servants of a renewed covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit, for the letter kills but the Spirit gives life.

2 Corinthians 5
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Messiah, he is a renewed creature – the old matters have passed away, see, all matters have become renewed!

Galatians 6
15 For in Messiah יהושע neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any strength, but a renewed creature.

Ephesians 2
15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity – the Torah of the commands in dogma – so as to create in Himself one renewed man from the two, thus making peace,

Ephesians 4
23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the renewed man which was created according to Elohim, in righteousness and set-apartness of the truth.

Hebrews 9
15 And because of this He is the Mediator of a renewed covenant, so that, death having taken place for redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, those who are called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance

The correct word in the passages listed below should be new. By altering the word to renewed, they are promoting that those who keep Torah are still included. If that was the case, there there is no need to preach the Gospel, because all of our Jewish brothers and sisters are already included. This is also presented by others as the “dual covenant” theology. What did Jesus/Yeshua say?

John 3
1 And there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
2 He came to Jesus by night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God; for no man can do these miracles which you do unless God is with him.
3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Now here is where the ISR people really blew it. Hebrews 8:8 quotes Jeremiah 31:31. Looks like they forgot to alter that one.

Hebrews 8
8 For finding fault with them, He says, “See, the days are coming,” says יהוה, “when I shall conclude with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah a renewed covenant,

Jeremiah 31
31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a new covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah

Take a look at the inside cover of your ISR , and try to find the name(s) of the translator(s). You won’t find any because there were no real translators. They took someone elses base text, and then added Hebraic words (YHWH, YHSWA), and then changed words to shift doctrine. In the Hebrew of Jeremiah 31, the word is chadash, and in the context of that verse in the Hebrew, it means new. The Jewish Publication Society translators, who have also done a job on the Hebrew Scriptures while trying to eliminate Messianic prophecies, missed that one. It reads “new” in the JPS TeNaKh as well still.

Here is a final example from the ISR, which makes absolutely no sense at all:

Revelation 21
1 And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more.

How can you renew what is passed away? Go figure.
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02-13-2013, 01:44 PM (This post was last modified: 02-13-2013 01:48 PM by charlesmb81.)
Post: #7
RE: The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
For those of you who truly seek truth at all cost and would like to understand better why there is no perfect translation and also so many, I recommend the book, "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D. Ehrman. This book deals with scriptural analysis of ancient manuscripts. It discusses the science behind determining which text ought to be included in the cannon of the bible and which interpretation. I am a believer and this book has helped me put some very important things into perspective. What I will warn you about is this is not a book for new believers or people who attach to much trust to what MEN have taught them about Scripture. The purpose of this post is to reveal that not everything is always as it seems in the Christian theological world. What is important is that we seek to know and understand God and his truths at all cost. Even if it means shedding some beliefs we've held onto for too long. The TS1998-2009 isn't bad, it's just a different perspective based on manuscripts that actually exist. In fact all translations come from manuscripts that exist. The question then is , "which are the right ones to use?"
PS- this book can be faith shattering to some (mostly to those who seem to think moses received the King James Bible on mount sanai)... you've been warned.
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02-13-2013, 06:59 PM (This post was last modified: 02-13-2013 08:22 PM by Vic.)
Post: #8
RE: The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
(02-13-2013 01:44 PM)charlesmb81 Wrote:  For those of you who truly seek truth at all cost and would like to understand better why there is no perfect translation and also so many, I recommend the book, "Misquoting Jesus" by Bart D. Ehrman. This book deals with scriptural analysis of ancient manuscripts. It discusses the science behind determining which text ought to be included in the cannon of the bible and which interpretation. I am a believer and this book has helped me put some very important things into perspective. What I will warn you about is this is not a book for new believers or people who attach to much trust to what MEN have taught them about Scripture. The purpose of this post is to reveal that not everything is always as it seems in the Christian theological world. What is important is that we seek to know and understand God and his truths at all cost. Even if it means shedding some beliefs we've held onto for too long. The TS1998-2009 isn't bad, it's just a different perspective based on manuscripts that actually exist. In fact all translations come from manuscripts that exist. The question then is , "which are the right ones to use?"
PS- this book can be faith shattering to some (mostly to those who seem to think moses received the King James Bible on mount sanai)... you've been warned.

Hi Charles,

It would be good if your first post had been a quick introduction in the appropriate Introduce yourself thread. It would be excellent to know you have read the forum rules found here > http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=28

I have never met anyone who 'seem to think moses received the King James Bible on mount sanai"....do you have specific names to go along with that statement? People I know have never entertained such a foolish notion. So who do you know personally that thinks that---is it published somewhere where we can validate your statement? You are right, going simply by a man's statements would be absolutely absurd, so we definitely need to prove all things. When one makes false or inaccurate statements while trying to claim they hold the truth, it really destroys all credibility, if there was any to begin with. Since we don't know you it's only fair to evaluate what you yourself have said.

Regarding Bart Ehrman--well his notions have been discussed on this forum before: Please do take a look, so we don't have to repost into this thread, since it's about the ISR.

Research about the 'historical Jesus' and the origin of Christianity.
http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=102

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...=22&page=2

There's a few other posts relating to his writing, so please take any discussion to the appropriate threads, and keep this thread on track..
Please do not come on here just to spam and promote that kind of source. If you bothered to read the forum and website you would know we absolutely desire the Truth of the Scriptures, and apply the Word of God, and facts to prove all things. What you have posted here suggests you don't necessarily do that, but rather go along with things that disparage and cast doubts upon Scriptural truth and the person of Jesus Christ.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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02-13-2013, 08:54 PM (This post was last modified: 02-13-2013 10:15 PM by Vic.)
Post: #9
RE: The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
It is hard to know where to start. But first is the assumption that the Messiah's name was/is Jesus. The "j" sound doesn't exist in Hebrew, and did not even exist in English until Elizabethan times.

Second, I have been Hebrew Roots/Messianic/REstoration Gospel for a decade and a half. There may be a few loons out there, OK I know there are, who deny the divinity of Yeh'shua/Jesus. But please do not paint us all with the same brush! Yeh'shua is YHVH in as much as there is no didtinction between YHVH and Yehshua save the human body that bleed and died for me, and you. Have you ever read D'Varim/Deuteronomy Chapter 6?

3 "O Israel, you should listen and be careful to do it, that it may be well with you and that you may multiply greatly, just as the LORD, the God of your fathers, has promised you, in a land flowing with milk and honey. 4 "Hear, O Israel ! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one ! 5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 " You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8 "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead . 9 "You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. NASV

If there is any distinction, aside from his physical body of which YHVH has none, he cannot be YHVH. It is not complicated. One means One not three.




(12-11-2008 01:04 PM)Vic Wrote:  The ISR is well used and promoted within Hebrew Roots. Lets look as some facts concerning this translation:

What the so called unnamed translators of this ISR "bible" did, was to take a text that was used in the translation of the KJV Bible, and then alter it by inserting other texts in various areas to promote an anti Christian theological bias. This version alters key passages that would demonstrate the Deity of Christ. The late Chris "CJ" Koster was one of the people apparently involved with this project. A perusal of the numerous articles written by Mr. Koster, reveals that he called his messiah YAHshua (he insisted that the Name Jesus was "pagan).

Koster also wrote a book called "Come out of her my people" which is also heavily promoted within HR. In Koster's book, it was stated that all things that Christians believe originated from paganism, including the words Lord, God, Jesus, etc. He did not believe that Jesus was divine, denying His Deity, and therefore denying Him as the Christ. Mr. Koster also taught that the Name of Jesus was the same as zeus, which many HR associates also claim, and are also just as wrong.

One of the distributors for his ISR "bible" listed all of the words that were removed from his "translation" because of their supposed pagan origin.

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Scriptures/...eathen.htm
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02-13-2013, 10:28 PM
Post: #10
RE: The ISR--The Scriptures--good or bad
Hi Ger Toshav, If you wish to discuss the Name issue, here's one of the threads to do so.

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=3

No one has painted anyone with the same brush. Or are you suggesting that we are all one paint brush here?

If you wish to discuss the HR movement, there's several options to choose from>

What is Two House, Ephraim, Joes, Lost tribes http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=3

The Ephraimite movement http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=71

What's the difference between Hebrew Roots and Messianic?
http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=13

And there are other threads that will likely appeal to that discussion. THis topic/thread is about the ISR, and mention of any other topic about it was in relation to the ISR author specifically. So please try to stay on topic. Thank you.

And please take a moment and introduce yourself here> http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=17

And if you haven't please do read the forum rules. http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?fid=2

Thank you

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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