Can we lose Salvation?

[a pilgrim]

Thanks Brethren, I used to be hyper dogmatic in my pet doctrine, and the Lord has ben patiently stripping me of MY dogma and lovingly teaching me his doctrine. We are a blessed believer when we are rid of our filters and start seeing the word without the tint.

Ben

[Mary]

(02-16-2010 10:58 PM)a pilgrim Wrote:  Thanks Brethren, I used to be hyper dogmatic in my pet doctrine, and the Lord has ben patiently stripping me of MY dogma and lovingly teaching me his doctrine. We are a blessed believer when we are rid of our filters and start seeing the word without the tint.

Ben

Yes, it was a good clearly put reply, and I always appreciate a post like that with good biblical support and discussion.

[resolute]

This is such a great thread. Instead of offering an opinion, here are a few of the things that I've learned from God that I think about all the time:

1. Our Father in heaven is extremely compassionate and forgiving. I know this from personal experience....BUT
2. I am petrified of what would happen to me if I take advantage of His compassion. I truly believe that the beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
3. Our Father in heaven is not the God of confusion.
4. No matter what happens or what I learn, it is important for me to remain humble.

The more I contend for the faith, the more I believe (at least when it comes to me, I can't speak for everyone) that a lot of this is between me and God. When certain scripture speaks to me, I listen. For example, I think I understand what Paul meant when he said that we are not bound by the law. But I'm not going to share what I think I know; first of all I'm only a baby Christian, and more importantly I get the sense that my understanding is meant to be kept private between myself and my Father.
Again, great thread.

[MBT]

(11-11-2010 12:35 AM)resolute Wrote:  This is such a great thread. Instead of offering an opinion, here are a few of the things that I've learned from God that I think about all the time:

1. Our Father in heaven is extremely compassionate and forgiving. I know this from personal experience....BUT
2. I am petrified of what would happen to me if I take advantage of His compassion. I truly believe that the beginning of wisdom is fear of the Lord.
3. Our Father in heaven is not the God of confusion.
4. No matter what happens or what I learn, it is important for me to remain humble.

The more I contend for the faith, the more I believe (at least when it comes to me, I can't speak for everyone) that a lot of this is between me and God. When certain scripture speaks to me, I listen. For example, I think I understand what Paul meant when he said that we are not bound by the law. But I'm not going to share what I think I know; first of all I'm only a baby Christian, and more importantly I get the sense that my understanding is meant to be kept private between myself and my Father.
Again, great thread.

I don't want to push a new believer but I would love to hear your thoughts on what Paul had to say about being bound by the law. If I happen to think like you do and we are both wrong then we will both get the benefit of sound interpretation from the other members...but that's up to you. I just want to hear what you have to say.

[Backpacker]

I've read through many of the posts in this thread and I have to admit, I'm totaly confused ;). I've been a Christian all my life, well as far back as I can remember and that's pushing 50 years. However, I'm being told by some of my Christian friends that I have lost my salvation because I no longer believe in the Trinity doctrine. Personally, I don't think they are right as I still feel the same as I always have and still love God with all my heart. I guess I am looking for all your opinions, do you think I have lost my salvation for not believing in the trinity anymore?

Jacob

[Vic]

(12-29-2010 12:26 AM)Backpacker Wrote:  I've read through many of the posts in this thread and I have to admit, I'm totaly confused ;). I've been a Christian all my life, well as far back as I can remember and that's pushing 50 years. However, I'm being told by some of my Christian friends that I have lost my salvation because I no longer believe in the Trinity doctrine. Personally, I don't think they are right as I still feel the same as I always have and still love God with all my heart. I guess I am looking for all your opinions, do you think I have lost my salvation for not believing in the trinity anymore?

Jacob

I think it would help by saying what you do believe now about these things. It's not the trinity doctrine that saves us. Or is it?

[Backpacker]

(12-29-2010 10:52 AM)Vic Wrote:  I think it would help by saying what you do believe now about these things. It's not the trinity doctrine that saves us. Or is it?

I do not believe that a belief the trinity doctrine saves us, but I have been told by many that it is, I of course disagree. My view is that YHWH and Jesus are one and the same, one God.

[heb13-13]

I don't think the Word of God teaches that you can lose your salvation like you lose a coin or a set of keys. First of all, the question is wrong.

The question should be, can you harden your heart through the deceitfulness of sin and walk away from God?

What has brought a slumber upon the Church is false doctrine which has produced a false security. Once Saved Always Saved produces a false security and puts people to sleep, spiritually. No longer any reason to contend for the faith.

It's always good to see what the Scriptures say.

According to God's Word, it is possible to:

let the things which you have heard slip (Heb. 2:1)
go astray (Mt. 18:12,13)
err from the faith (1 Tim. 6:10,21)
err from the faith and overthrow the faith of others (2 Tim. 2:18)
lose your savour (saltiness) (Lk. 14:34,35)
be offended by Jesus (Mt. 11:6; Mk. 14:27,29)
fall away from grace (Gal. 5:4)
believe for awhile but in time of temptation fall away (Lk. 8:13)
be offended, betray one another and hate one another (Mt. 24:10)
have your faith shipwrecked (1 Tim. 1:19)
turn back and no longer follow Jesus (Jn. 6:66)
forsake the right way and go astray (2 Pet. 2:15)
stop abiding in Christ and as a branch, be withered and thrown away (Jn. 15:6)
be offended (Jn. 16:1)
turn aside after Satan (1 Tim. 5:15)
depart from the faith, having your conscience seared with a hot iron (1 Tim. 4:1-2)
turn your ears away from the truth and turn unto fables (2 Tim. 4:4)
acquire an evil heart of unbelief and depart from the living God (Heb. 3:12)
fall away to the point where you can’t be renewed to repentance (Heb. 6:6)
refuse Him that speaketh from heaven (Heb. 12:25)
become lukewarm and get spit out of the body of Christ (Rev. 3:15,16)
not remain faithful and be hurt by the second death (Rev. 2:10,11)
have God take away your part from the tree of life and in the holy city (Rev. 22:19)
be led away with the error of the wicked and fall from your steadfastness (2 Pet 3:17)
be carried away by all kinds of strange doctrines (Heb. 13:9)


As you can see there is not a single scripture that talks about you losing your salvation, as if you misplaced it.

But there are dire warnings about you giving up and walking away from God.

Who shall be saved?

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

I guess that means there is something for us to do. Endure!

We have a walk to walk, nothing is automatic. The Children of Israel in the Wilderness had a walk to walk and many gave up. Nothing has really changed to day except the sacrifice for us is once and for all and now we are the temple of God, His dwelling place. But we still must apprehend that for which we were apprehended. (Philipians). We still must forsake sin and sow to the Spirit and not to the flesh. There is a walk to walk a fight to fight and a race to be run. These are not passive activities.

Thank God for His free gift of salvation, there is nothing you can do to earn it. But you can certainly throw it away after you have received it. At least that is what the scriptures I just listed mean to me. You can stop fighting the good fight, stop walking your walk with God and running your race for salvation.

I don't believe in the Security of the Unbeliever. When so-called Believers walk as Unbelievers and think they have Security, they are deceived. What was the whole point Jesus was speaking to the Churches in Revelation in chapter 2 and 3 all about? He was giving severe warnings and corrections regarding turning around (repenting).

So many are slumbering today. The Church is asleep and in bondage. We have to rouse ourselves continually and stay awake. Many things in this world can put us to sleep, not just false doctrine.

Nothing much has changed.

[Vic]

Rick! I guess the only thing I would say is those who belong to Jesus Christ are not in bondage. Because we know in Christ we are free; sin can no longer have dominion over us;

Joh 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

I think those who are in religion, and not serving Christ are in bondage. Yes, many believers struggle, fall, get temporarily deceived possibly, but those who love CHrist are merely learning to follow Him no matter what. That is all part of maturing in Christ.

1 Peter 4:12-13 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13. But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

1 Peter 1:5-7 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: 7. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

I think there's a difference in what is called the Christian church and those living for Jesus Christ, if that makes sense. Scripture tells us there will be a great falling away, and if your above post is true on the Scriptures you mention, that falling away has to do with those who knew the truth.

[MBT]

I wanted to place these passages in the context of this discussion. I think it is important to know, that we can know, that we are saved.

Romans 10:9-10, "9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

John 3:15-16, " 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Romans 4:5, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

1 John 5:20, "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."

Romans 5:21, "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord."

John 10:28, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand."

Ephesians 2:8-10, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

1 John 5:13, "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

2 Corinthians 5:17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

1 John 3:10, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

1 John 1:8,10 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. ... If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

1 Peter 1:3-5 "3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

1 Corinthians 15: 9-10 "9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me."