Can we lose Salvation?

[sheep wrecked]

(05-13-2009 06:44 AM)finney Wrote:  OK. I see where this is going. Actually, there wasn't any "heat" in that little missive, I'm not angry nor upset in any way with you (or anybody else I've run across here), it's just that there's so much to cover I was just puddle-jumping to touch on as much stuff as I could in as brief a time as possible (I don't always have much time for this).

Puddle jumping would be pretty accurate. Sometimes you just gotta settle down and take one point at at time instead of flip flopping around and expect people to follow what you are trying to say

Quote:Once you get past Philemon you're no longer dealing with church books, you're dealing with books for those that turn to Christ during the tribulation. Paul, not John, not Peter, not James, not the writer of Hebrews or anybody else you care to name is the apostle to the Gentiles and it was to him that the mystery of the church and the dispensation of grace was revealed. When you (or anybody, for that matter) try to make Hebrews or I John apply to the church you're pounding square pegs into round holes. Don't give me "All scripture is..." either, because not all scripture is for practice (unless you stone witches and kill those that practice homosexuality and only travel about 6,000 feet from Friday afternoon to Saturday the same and so on and so on. 613 rules in the Old Covenant, most of which are just flat out ignored. Pretty much only those dealing with people giving money to Priests, Pastors and Parsons are mentioned).

Let me take this one thought at a time.

The books of the NT are not ordered chronologically, so I am not sure of you point of "once you are past Philemon".

Question 1: If the NT were not for all believers, then why did Peter refer to Paul's writings as "Scritpure"?

Question 2: When Peter was with the gentile he wasn't actually preaching Christ or the gospel--just hanging out so they could all be buds?

Question 3: Are you looking at the Jews as a separate group? and they don't have the same gospel as we do?

Question 4: Am I to understand that the NT is not for believers then, but for pastors only?

1Pe 5:12 By Silvanus, a faithful brother unto you, as I suppose, I have written briefly, exhorting, and testifying that this is the true grace of God wherein ye stand.

Silvanus was a roman citizen--not a Jew


1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
1Pe 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

This text means all christians--Jews and gentiles.

1 Pet 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The strangers are foreigners === those not of jewish descent necessarily ---that means all christians--Jews and gentiles


2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished to all good works.

Question 5: Please do tell, are the Jews only, men of God?

Question 6: Where do you see what one "practices" listed here?

The OT Law is the old covenant, which was replaced by the New Covenant in Christ's blood. We no longer stone people. The 6,000 ft traveling on the Shabbat is a Rabbinic tradition, as are the numerical significance of "613" - not found in the Bible.

Quote:Anything at all that you must do to remain saved becomes work for reward (not losing your salvation). God will punish you for doing or not doing by taking away His free gift (which He said He wouldn't do; the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. That's repentance on His part, not yours, by the way.) of everlasting life through faith in Christ Jesus and when you say that you (or anybody) denies the cross. If you can lose salvation then 1) it wasn't everlasting and 2) not all sin was placed on Christ; there was enough left over to condemn you.

I think you are mixing up a few concepts here. First, salvation is a gift without works. Continuing in salvation is working it out with fear and trembling, and bearing forth good fruit, as we are made in the image of Christ daily by the work of the Holy Spirit and the grace of God. It is His effort in us that leads us in the paths of righteousness. We have a choice to follow that lead - we are not robots. Therefore, it is not God who "takes away" salvation - people choose to throw it away.

Can you please tell me what Jesus meant when He said this?

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the farmer.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:3 Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken to you.
Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can you, except you abide in me.
Joh 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He that stays in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, you shall ask what you will, and it shall be done to you.
Joh 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that you bear much fruit; so shall you be my disciples.

Quote:I'm stickin' with the sins of the world placed on him and God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, not counting their sins against them and Jesus was made a curse for us and so on. It's not about what we do for reward or fear of punishment, that's the law; it's about what we do out of love and being beseeched to do, not commanded.

So, even you agree that we are required to do certain things in order to continue in salvation.

Quote:I don't know what you think you can do that will cause you to lose everlasting life, but if that's what you believe than you better not do it. I feel for you and all those that still struggle with the law of sin and death. It's a big dragon and he still rears his head over my way, too.

We struggle with sin because we are still in the flesh. But we don't desire to sin as a child of God, and crucify the flesh daily. Then when we sin, we repent and confess our sins. The promise is that when we do sin, God is faithful to forgive or else we would most certainly be doomed for destruction. It is a matter of the heart. This is the New Covenant, God's Law written on the heart.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened to the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.


Do you agree that the "let us hold fast our profession" is our choice?