RE: Can we lose Salvation?
(01-28-2010 02:53 PM)Scotchman Wrote:
I think I understand what direction you are going in. However; I am not sure that the verses you chose actually show that one is "osas". What I see in the NT is actually a lot of verses showing that salvation can be lost, by choice.
(01-28-2010 02:10 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:
(01-27-2010 11:21 PM)Scotchman Wrote: [/i]
I think also that when Jesus refers to HIS as Sheep and the world as Wolves that the implication is that one can not change his inherent nature. One is either Damned or Sanctified at God's Will (see Romans 9).
We are saved for Life!
I think I have misunderstood you a bit, so help me out here. Is your position "once saved always saved"? At first, because of the Finney quote that you posted, I assumed you were not. That would help me dialogue a bit more informed!
We take the Bible as Fact. Accepting Romans 9, Galatians 1, and Ephesians 2 & 3 in addition to Jesus' Words above.
If you are a sheep (from before the foundation of the World) then you will die a Sheep.
If you see someone die a Wolf, then they were never a Sheep.
1 John 2:19 * They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out , that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
If you are Born from Above then you are Born Eternally. I am careful about the term "Once Saved Always Saved" and so was Paul.
Romans 6:1-2 * What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? * God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein
Romans 6:15 * What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid
Read his words here and see why this belief (commonly called calvinism not because he invented it but because he wrote the most about it at that time) has gotten a bad name. People think that God's sheep can live like the devil till they die. But Scripture teaches that although we may sin occasionally, it is not our moral character to live in sin.
Some very famous and popular teachers are actually teaching that one can name 'jesus' and yet live in adultery. Then die and go to heaven!
Remember also, that not all who name 'jesus' are following. And not all are following the right 'jesus'. That is why we are warned of a false Gospel in Galatians.
Why would they go to Heaven when they lived a wicked life against God?
It is not enough to name the name of Jesus or just Believe to be saved.
James 2:19 * Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble
One must confess Him as LORD.
Romans 10:9 * That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
Philippians 2:11 * And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
One is either a child of God and a Sheep for Life...
Or a child of the Devil and a Wolf.
Romans 9:8 * That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: ...
And it is God's Perogative to work this way.
Romans 9:14-15 * What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. * For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion
God can choose to Love some and Hate others.
Romans 9:11-13 * (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) * It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. * As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
This is an awesome chapter
Romans 9:18 * Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy , and whom he will he hardeneth
And all this connects to Isaiah
Isaiah 29:16 * Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
Yes, IF one is truly saved, then they are saved throughout Eternity.
And not only does Eternity have no end, but most people do not realize that it had no Beginning.
I only want to Live by the Word of God, which is Christ Jesus.
If one remains in Christ - per John 17, then one is His for all eternity, but if one does not bear fruit, that person will be cut off. One cannot be "in Christ" aka a branch in the first place, to be cut off for lack of good fruit. Does that make sense? In other words, how can one be cut off if they were not ever a branch?