Can we lose Salvation?

[Vic]

Just excellent Ben. It's part of the reason I hate some topics getting started on the forum, because of the horrible attitudes and the total dependence on manmade beliefs over the Word of God.

The Holy Spirit is supposed to teach us and we are to be seeking His understanding--from the Word. Scripture interprets Scripture, but people have this thing that someone has to have figured it all out for them aside from the Scriptures.

I also reject the notion of the two belief systems you mentioned and another poster recently mentioned, that all believers are either Calvinist or arminianist. I didn't even know that those beliefs systems existed until getting on the net after a few years. I still can't tell you what it all means.

To me we are to see through the lens of the mind of Christ as the Holy Spirit gives understanding--not some persons opinion of the Scriptures elevated to being Scripture itself.

I love the verses you quoted, especially, John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

To me that is the essence of a life living for Christ. It's not about us, it's about Him.

I can't remember if I posted this in before, but this is from my website FAQS. But I thought because it so paralleled your statements it is worth another read. http://www.SeekGod.ca/faqs.htm


Q. What are your views on 'Once Saved, Always Saved'?

A. That too often the wrong questions are being asked, and people argue and debate erroneously. There's an old saying which states that he who asks the questions controls the outcome. Many are asking that question because they or someone they know is living to the flesh. They want assurance that if they say they confess Christ or have in the past, that they will still go to heaven regardless how they behave or what they do.

I prefer to ask, " why, if a person claims to love Jesus Christ, aren't they serving Him, and growing in grace and knowledge of Him? Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. He also said to pick up our cross daily or we are not worthy to serve Him."

The question that needs to be asked: Why are people sowing to the flesh and worried about whether they can still get into heaven? Rather than obeying the person of Jesus Christ, they are bringing dishonor to Him by making the claim they also love or live for Him or have in the past.

It's all very simple. It's about Christ. About serving Him. Loving Him. Obeying Him. It's not about sowing to the flesh. And in the end, Facing Christ will either be a joyous event or a shameful experience.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Romans 6:6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The reality of behavior for those who belong to Jesus Christ is answered by Christ Himself and His apostles:

John14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

*11 John 15:3-8
*14 Romans 6:19-23


*12 Matthew 10:32,33,38
*15 Romans 8:1-17


*13 1 John 2:28
*16 2 Corinthians 5:16-21


I suppose in the end, the question is...can someone who claims to know Christ deliberately and knowingly enter into the the things of the flesh and have fruit that shows their condition as being not of Christ...can that person actually belong to Christ in the first place?

2 Corinthians 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

2 Peter 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Many Scriptures come to mind. While we at times will be tested and put through all manner of trials, some of which we will fail and some we will walk in faith and trust. In the end, God knows who are His. That's what really matters.

We're to be about our Lord's business, not wondering what we can get away with and still 'be saved'.

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.