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sheep wrecked · 12-29-2008, 10:25 PM

(12-29-2008 07:51 PM)carl37 Wrote: As far as these gentlemen being minor scholars so what. Yehushua's biggest opponents seem to have been the so-called educated and leaders of the day. Just because someone doesn't have a doctorate from a school someone deems appropriate in no way makes that person's findings or views invalid. As for Mr.Trimm's alleged or actual infidelity that is something he will have to answer for when he stands in front of the Almighty. As I recall Peter denied the Messiah three times. Yet somehow his gospels are still valid. (I am in now way equating Mr. Trimm with Peter. What I am saying is that it would seem that Peter repented and was forgiven. Do you have proof that Mr. Trimm hasn't repented?) The point of this thread is the discussion of Shem Tov's Hebrew Matthew. The manuscript exists hence the reason for this thread.

The fact is that "minor scholars" are making suppositions about the Holy Word of God. It is not some cheap dime store novel. It's God's Word they are messing with. They hate Jesus Christ by their denials. Their works should be burned.

Secondly, we note that Peter repented with a sincere heart and became a witness to the Gospel, who did mighty works, signs and wonders in the Name of Jesus. The testimony of his belief in the One true God and Savior is impeccable. Peter's hands are clean.

James Trimm's hands are filthy. He teaches kabbalah, he is an adulterer, he plagiarized the NT, he copied the OT King James and then inserted his own Hebrew words and sacred names - boldly stating that his version was TRANSLATED from the original languages, all with a false doctorate from a diploma mill and no BA or MA in any field, which must precede a Doctorate. Then he sold his HRV to 100s of people who still have not received them 5-6 yrs down the road. To many of them, he insisted the money they paid were "donations" to further his work and he owed them NOTHING. James continues to send out emails begging for money - he says his followers owe him the "tithe". He has not only committed adultery many times, but is a pedifile, has pornographic material in his home, and he and his wife were owners and moderaters of a forum devoted to TV soap opera. He continues to promote his HRV, apocryphal writings, and his kabbalistic writings weekly on paltalk and through emails. He has filthy dirty hands. And you compare him to Peter?

Lastly, the Shem Tov is a polemic work - it hates Jesus Christ and says he was hanged on gallows, not crucified, thereby denying the blood atonement.

Quote:Papias (Eusebius, H.E. 3.39.16)
"Matthew collected the oracles (ta logia) in the Hebrew language, and each interpreted them as best he could."

Irenaeus, Adv. Haer. 3.1.1
"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews n their own dialect while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome and laying the foundations of the church."

Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4)
"As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language."

Eusebius, H.E. 3.24.6
"Matthew had first preached to Hebrews, and when he was on the point of going to others he transmitted in writing in his native language the Gospel according to himself, and thus supplied by writing the lack of his own presence to those from whom he was sent."

Epiphanius (ca. 315-403), bishop of Salamis, refers to a gospel used by the Ebionites (Panarion 30. 13.1-30.22.4). He says it is Matthew, called "According to the Hebrews" by them, but says it is corrupt and mutilated. He says Matthew issued his Gospel in Hebrew letters. He quotes from this Ebionite Gospel seven times. These quotations appear to come not from Matthew but from some harmonized account of the canonical Gospels.

Jerome also asserts that Matthew wrote in the Hebrew language (Epist. 20.5), and he refers to a Hebrew Matthew and a Gospel of the Hebrews-unclear if they are the same. He also quotes from the Gospel used by the Nazoreans and the Ebionites, which he says he has recently translated from Hebrew to Greek (in Matth. 12.13).

The problem is that many scholars question the validity of a original Hebrew Matthew. The weight rests on papias, who seems to be a questionable source. So we have only one witness. The others simply repeated his error. It would be advantageous not to keep promoting something that cannot be proven either way. It appears that if God wanted a Hebrew Matthew, He would have left it for us. He did not. The Word still belongs to Him, including the NT. If we do not believe that God preserved the Word as He chose, then we have no hope that His Word is forever. We have Greek frags dating back to the very late first to very early second century. We have zero, zip, nada Hebrew further back than the 3rd. Do the math 13666

Quote:Although I don't necessarily agree with everything that is written I do recommend Bart Ehrman's book "Misquoting Jesus" It is an excellent reference as to how we received the New Testament we have today.

Bart Ehrman is a disgruntled former Christian with an awe to grind. He is not interested in the truth, he is interested in casting doubt on the NT, and on blaspheming Jesus Christ.