Shem Tov or Shem Tob Matthew--The Hebrew Matthew
12-30-2008, 02:20 PM
RE: Shem Tov or Shem Tob Matthew--The Hebrew Matthew
Quote:As far as Rose asking for where I got the list. I stated in the post each instance that was given for that particular point of view. As far as these gentlemen being minor scholars so what.
Are you saying then, Carl, that you manufactured that list and are in fact from the Remnant of YHWH website? or Yahweh's New Covenant Assembly?
Because claiming to have given each instance of the particular point of view--knowing that list was compiled first on either of those websites--are you claiming to be the author or plagiarising the list?
Either way, it is extremely poor scholarship as has been pointed out--as most advocate aramaic originals, not Hebrew, which was what you were trying to advocate.
Suggesting you don't believe or agree begs the question, what is your agenda? You promote Hebrew roots views, have sacred name inclinations, insinuate or accuse anyone who disagrees with your statements of being anti semitic or anti-messianic or anti-jewish etc., claiming those have lack of love of whatever name you are using today that you follow, and then you say,
Quote:Again, I never said that I supported the newer list of scholars who implied that Matthew was written in Hebrew. I just listed them as some reference in addition to the early church fathers.
Which is it Carl, you posted the list to agree with it's faulty scholarship or to disagree with it?
To prove a Hebrew Matthew and then Hebrew original NT or disprove a Hebrew Matthew and then disprove a Hebrew NT and instead advocate for an Aramaic one?
As has been stated by you:
Quote:The point of this thread is the discussion of Shem Tov's Hebrew Matthew. The manuscript exists hence the reason for this thread.
You seem to be mixing apples and turnips Carl, and totally missing what is being said to you. Let me be clear, I am not shouting at you, but, PLEASE READ THIS CAREFULLY AND UNDERSTAND:
Shem Tov's Hebrew Matthew is not a legitimate Hebrew Matthew that you are thinking exists. There is no original Hebrew Matthew manuscript in existance.
Shem Tov's Hebrew Matthew was not written in the first century. READ THIS CAREFULLY
The Shem Tov Matthew or any Hebrew Matthews, originated in Europe between 1300-1500. Precisely, Shem Tov or Shem Tob is dated 1380, while DuTillet and Muenster are about 1550. Together they make up the "Middle Ages Matthews" but, they are very different, and as one stated, that is one of the ironies.
Shem Tov's "Matthew", or Shem Tob's Matthew as some call it, which textual critics will tell you, is nothing more than an altered medieval text, which is a corrupt copy of the Latin text, which was originally copied from the Greek by those who didn't believe in Christ. Most legitimate textual critics have all but ignored this middle age manuscript.
The truth is that uninformed believers are being led by unbelievers to accept an altered anti-Christian version of Matthew that was included in the writing titled "Even Bohan" or "The Touchstone." This document was authored by Shem Tov, an unbelieving anti-Christian Jewish writer who some have referred to as a theologian, who resided in Spain during the fourteenth century. His copy of Hebrew Matthew has anti-Christian polemical commentary by him throughout the text.
The Jewish Encyclopedia states this about the author of the Even Bohan:
"...As a Talmudic scholar he carried on a correspondence with Sheshet. At Tarazona he completed his "Eben Bohan" (May, 1380 or 1385), a polemical work against baptized Jews..." [IBN SHAPRUT (SHAFRUT, By : Richard Gottheil ; Meyer Kayserling
"...Dr. William L. Petersen, The Genesis of Shem Tob Matthew: "104. There is no mystery about the genesis of Shem-Tob's Hebrew Matthew. It is obvious that it incorporates material from a variety of sources (e.g., from the Toledoth Jeshu, the Vetus Latina, etc.). But because of the high number of agreements with the Liège Harmony, many of them unique, the tradition behind the Liège Harmony--which we know to be a Latin gospel harmony--must also be the principal element responsible for the textual complexion of Shem-Tob's Hebrew Matthew:"
Carl, lets recap---there is no original Hebrew Matthew. Shem Tob/Tov Hebrew Matthews are manufactured as a polemic against Christ and Christians.
Therefore they are useless to anyone except those with those anti christ beliefs.
Quote:As a final thought believe you me, I am in no way trying to dissuade anyone here from their views nor do I think anyone here is trying to dissuade me from mine. .... I enjoy (dare I say it?) playing the devil's advocate so to speak just to see what kind of response is evoked.
Might I suggest Carl, if you want to discuss something, that you resist the temptation to stand in the devil's corner presenting lies and poor scholarship as fact and something that you appear to be advocating, and then when shown to be incorrect, say you didn't agree with it in the first place, you just want to see what happens.
From my point of view---it goes against the scriptures to behave in that manner.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
If you want to ask questions that you don't necessarilyy believe---why not just say, "I don't agree with this, but some say...."
After all, as you said, we are all adults, there's no need to play games.
3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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