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Hebrew Idioms, Hebrew Mindset, Hebraic Mindset and Hebraic Idioms for Understanding
05-12-2009, 01:15 PM
Post: #1
Hebrew Idioms, Hebrew Mindset, Hebraic Mindset and Hebraic Idioms for Understanding
There are many within Hebrew Roots who posit that one cannot understand the Scriptures unless one understands the "hidden hebrew idioms" claimed to have come from the "original hebrew manuscripts"-of which there are none. The claim is that the Scriptures were originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic, and the Greeks messed everything up. Some will state that while reading the Hebrew idioms, many statements appear to be mixed up and that we then skim over passages that seem to contradict themselves.

Many would therefore in their "innocence" skip the hard parts and focus on the familar parts we would understand. Many claim that Christians are never encouraged to study and search for the "deeper and truer" meaning of the Scriptures.

From a Christian perspective, it seems to me people get all caught up in words and miss what is being said. If a child can understand things, we know it isn't as complicated as some would like us to believe.

Scriptures remind us:


2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

1 Timothy 6:3-4 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4. He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,


We know that God gives us understanding:

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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05-12-2009, 01:21 PM
Post: #2
RE: Hebrew Idioms, Hebrew Mindset, Hebraic Mindset and Hebraic Idioms for Understanding
HR Myth > Most of the Scriptures were originally written in the Hebrew and Aramaic languages.

----
** That is incorrect. The OT was written in Hebrew and Aramaic. The NT has Greek, the occassional Aramaic, and the occassional Hebrew.

Hebrew is a language that evolved historically from proto Canaanite (1400 bce) into Phoenician (1050 bce) then into paleo, middle, and late Hebrew, which finally ended up becoming the Biblical Hebrew (with vowels) that we find today in the Masoretic text. From there modern words were added, and then once again it evolved into the modern Hebrew that is spoken in Israel today.

There are parts of various books in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) that are written partially in Aramaic (Daniel, Ezra, Jeremiah, Genesis). Aramaic is a language that came out of Canaan, where the people worshipped idols, and was also spoken in pagan Babylon during the captivity. There are loan words which are transliterated from Greek to Aramaic in the book of Daniel (3:5,7,10,15). And of course, whether accepted or not, the LXX was written in Greek.

There are NO original Hebrew manuscripts for the NT. We do have 5,656 manuscripts in Greek, and we know that there are a few aramaic words and specifically noted hebrew words and chaldee words in those [John 5:2; John 9:7, John 1:42, Acts 9:36, Heb 7:1-2] Jesus chose to speak Aramaic in Mark 15:34. It is written in Scripture, that when He addressed the Father from the Cross, He cried out “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani” which is clearly in the Aramaic language.

***

Myth> Christians are seldom encouraged to study and search for the deeper and true meaning of the Scriptures, unlike those in Hebrew Roots or those getting back to their "Jewish roots." The Talmud is a necessary part of gaining understanding and clarity of the Scriptures.

***That might be what some are used to and perhaps why those in HR feel that way, but many Christians do study the Word. The deeper meaning that many search for with their hebraic mindset is the kabbalistic mindset and Pardes--the 4 levels of meaning. That has no place in Christian study. It is the kabbalah and therefore the occult. The Talmud, as stated previously was written by those who reject Jesus Christ as the prophesied Messiah, as the Christ, as the Son of God, as God manifest in the flesh.

What do you suppose they have to offer a person who believes He is the promised Messiah, He is the Christ, He is the Son of God, He is God manifest in the flesh?

Do they think in terms of His divinity, His purpose for dying on the cross?

For being risen from the grave and sitting at the Right hand of the Father, ever making intercession for those who are His?

Do you really think how they interpret the Scriptures is something believers should seek out, including all their teachings which are viewed as above and more important than the actual Scriptures --- meaning and only meaning the OT.? That means the writings in the Talmud and kabbalah have nothing whatsoever to do with the NT, other than to reject them as Scripture, along with Christ.

The NT is not viewed as Scripture by them, so those who advocat the Talmud and rabbinic writings as a good source, are then in agreement with those beliefs. If not, they need to no longer accept them as a source.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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05-12-2009, 01:30 PM
Post: #3
RE: Hebrew Idioms, Hebrew Mindset, Hebraic Mindset and Hebraic Idioms for Understanding
Myth> Our minds must be made new in order to understand the difficult passages of Scripture and hidden Hebrew idioms. To merely read the Bible and take every word at face value means we miss the hidden meanings.

***We are made new in Christ. Those who struggle with understanding and therefore seek alternative teachers and different methods do so because they lack dependence on the Holy Spirit to teach them.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 8 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

And 2 Peter 2:1-3 and

1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


Myth > From Genesis to Revelation, there are hundreds of commandments and ordinances. Yet, believers are never told to read the Bible. Out of all the mitzvot, this one is just not there.

*** That is incorrect. This is just one example of hundreds, telling us of the need to study and learn God's Word.

Psalms 119:11-16 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. 12. Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes. 13. With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth. 14. I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches. 15. I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways. 16. I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.

And from the NT

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

1 Timothy 4:12-16 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. 13. Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. 14. Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery. 15. Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all. 16. Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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05-12-2009, 01:42 PM
Post: #4
RE: Hebrew Idioms, Hebrew Mindset, Hebraic Mindset and Hebraic Idioms for Understanding
Myth> Clarity will comes through word studies and research with books like Hebrew dictionaries and lexicons. By recognizing Hebrew idioms and learning the differences between modern translations, bad translations and humanism., which muddle our understanding, but learning the ancient Hebrew language, is just the start to really studying the scriptures. We also need to learn the Hebrew culture.

***We are called to study to show ourselves approved, and that is something many take seriously. And many do not. It is a mistake broad brush believers in such a way.

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Gal 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.


Are there any Scriptures which state, "Clarity comes through word studies and research with books like Hebrew dictionaries and lexicons. We need to recognize Hebrew idioms and learn the differences..."?

Peter said, 2 Peter 1:2-12 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3. According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

5. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6. And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7. And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

8. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 11. For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 12. Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.


Myth> Traditional Jewish writings support the Hebrew Idioms concepts and understandings. From a Hebraic mindset or view, it is easy to understand the difficult words of Jesus.

***Traditional Jewish writings mean the Talmud and cabalah/Kabbalah / Zohar. They were written by those who rejected Jesus Christ as the Messiah and Savior and Lord. They have nothing to offer Christians or those who belong to Jesus Christ. Some content specifically blapshemes our Lord, such as the Toledot Yeshu (or Tolodoth Ieschu or Sepher Toldoth Jehoshua) and so on. These are totally inappropriate to be encouraged as sources for believers.

David Bivin and Roy Blizzard wrote a book Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus. It has been foundational in launching the Hebreaic Roots movement or the 'in search of Jewish roots', etc. and undermining the validity of the NT as a whole, as well as the Greek manuscripts and the divinity of Christ.

David Bivin (Director of the Jerusalem School Of Synoptic Research(JSSR) and his partner Roy Blizzard, published the book in 1984 and reprinted in 1994 and 1995. The book focuses on Matthew, Mark and Luke. John is not included.

Jesus Christ is identified by the JSSR as being "like other Jewish sages of that time"...

According to the JSSR, there is a more authentic Life of Jesus than the gospel accounts, and one cannot possibly understand the NT without the 'real' Hebrew and understanding things from the Hebraic perspective.

The following excerpts from Understanding The Difficult Words Of Jesus represent the JSSR viewpoint on the lack of originality of the Greek New Testament:


"...Our reasons for writing this book are not only to show that the original gospel was communicated in the Hebrew language; but to show that the entire New Testament can only be understood from a Hebrew perspective. 2.

"It cannot be overemphasised, that the key to an understanding of the New Testament is a fluent knowledge of Hebrew and an intimate acquaintance with Jewish history, culture, and Rabbinic Literature."


And the Scripture that upholds that a Hebraic mindset is necessary to understand the Scriptures is what?

As already stated, there are no original Hebrew manuscripts. Wanting it to be so does not make it so. Those who struggle to understand the Scriptures appear to not have the things freely given by God to those who belong to Him. And that starts with belonging to and Knowing Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

For more on these issues see the whole To Embrace Hebrew Roots series> http://www.seekgod.ca/topichr.htm#series

Also, a bit more on the Jerusalem School of Synoptic Research -found in the above mentioned series and also http://www.seekgod.ca/jpfriends2.htm

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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01-29-2010, 04:09 PM
Post: #5
RE: Hebrew Idioms, Hebrew Mindset, Hebraic Mindset and Hebraic Idioms for Understanding
Let's see. the Jews rejected the Messiah so God moved over to the Gentiles and wrote a New Covenant in Hebrew to confuse the Gentiles for having never heard about the Jewish religion before.... So that the new ignorant gentiles can become a laity for the priests which Jesus called children of Satan. So the ignorant Gentiles can be servants of the antichrist leaders?

Somehow I do not think that fits. Why do people want to follow the traditions of the very people who rejected God and therefore were rejected by Him for a Season.

1 John 2:27 * But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

It is the old heresy of secret wisdom requiring the leaders to guide us.

Matthew 23:15 * Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

God does not have that.

Deuteronomy 30:11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.


The only people have difficulty finding God are people who have lost Him.

Proverbs 1:28-31 * Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: * For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: * They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. * Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.
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01-30-2010, 01:38 AM
Post: #6
RE: Hebrew Idioms, Hebrew Mindset, Hebraic Mindset and Hebraic Idioms for Understanding
(01-29-2010 04:09 PM)Scotchman Wrote:  The only people have difficulty finding God are people who have lost Him.

ahhhh - so you admit that salvation can be lost Biggrin
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01-30-2010, 01:21 PM
Post: #7
RE: Hebrew Idioms, Hebrew Mindset, Hebraic Mindset and Hebraic Idioms for Understanding
(01-30-2010 01:38 AM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  ahhhh - so you admit that salvation can be lost?

Keep trying
8816

I said GOD could be lost by the unsaved and NOT that Salvation could be lost by the Redeemed.

Once Redeemed always Redeemed!

seriously, I have little sense of humor.
My family can vouch for this.
Sorry if you were being funny.
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01-30-2010, 08:55 PM
Post: #8
RE: Hebrew Idioms, Hebrew Mindset, Hebraic Mindset and Hebraic Idioms for Understanding
(01-30-2010 01:38 AM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  
(01-29-2010 04:09 PM)Scotchman Wrote:  The only people which have difficulty finding God are people who have lost Him.

ahhhh - so you admit that salvation can be lost Biggrin

NO, I said God can be Lost or at least the Understanding of Him,
by the unbelieving.

But for the Saved Sheep, NOTHING is Hid.!

God warned the unbelieving that in time they would not be able to find Him.

He is Never lost from us.

I never even referenced Salvation in this regard. You added that!

Stirthepot

Trying to trap me, eh?


You want my belief? Read the London Baptist Confession of 1677. It is as close as a document I can find. Nothing jumped out which bother me. But it WOULD bother most arminian churches today.
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