Does Jesus bring a new Torah with the New Covenant?
04-24-2011, 04:20 PM (This post was last modified: 04-24-2011 04:35 PM by Vic.)
RE: Does Jesus bring a new Torah with the New Covenant?
Quote:You're correct in saying Jesus' law is from the Father.Shalom Sari
I say this lightly, but if Jesus taught “the perfect law” and you believe it wasn’t the torah. What does that make the instructions that Yah gave to the children of Yisra’el? The bad law, Paul calls this law a lot of things and most of them point to it being perfect (Romans 7) Torah is the perfect law, that’s why it is written on our hearts. If you read Romans 7 slowly you will see that Paul is trying to tell us that the spirit he now lives in allows him to achieve the goal set in Torah that he once had to struggle at doing.
I want to go back to the verse you quoted in 1 John 2:7 (in full).
Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning
(1 John 2:7)
It said the old commandment “is in the word”
- the word…
The only place the remnant of Yahuah would have called the word is the Torah, Acts 15 tells us that Moses is preached on every Shabbat, not the law of Jesus (Acts 15:21), but the Law of Moses.
In fact, the commandment being reference here is found in the Torah, not the “law from beginning” as if it were something else... There are so many scriptures in the Torah that point to this, which I’ll get to in a moment.
But before I do, let me explain how I see your understanding on Jesus law verses the torah law, and you can correct me if I’m wrong. If Jesus established a new law where is it after he spoke of it, why do we see the continuation of the Torah being used after his death and not his law? Why does Revelation constantly speak of keeping the Father Commandments and the testimony of Jesus, and have no mention of the Son’s laws?
Why does Paul even go as far to tell us that using the Torah is to make us wise unto salvation, who is Jesus. Don’t you think that if Jesus had this law he would use it for us to find him verses the Father’s law? Fact of matter is Jesus quote on quote law in Matthew serves as an interpretation of the meaning of Torah, not as a replacement.
I’ll repeat myself again, but Jesus could not have taught something different than torah. No one should say so unless they have a scripture of him being ordained by God to do so through prophecy, or have him breaking one of the Father laws.
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me
This would be the exact same doctrine that he gave his people to follow, which we are told to follow.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
( 1 Tim 3:16)
I’m not seeing how we can even play with the idea of it being something else. The prophets read
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them (Ezekiel 36:27)
10Ye stand this day all of you before the LORD your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, with all the men of Israel,
11Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that is in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live
This goes on and on all threw the book with the end result being us. Either you are circumcised in the heart or not, if you’re not, then yes, it doesn’t apply to you, but if you claim you are then you are now in with them.
The point you made about love in the heart derives from the old covenant equally the same.
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart (Deut 6:4-6)
- But thou shall love thy neighbor as thyself (Lev 19:18)
Let me point out something in (Psalms 40:6) Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire ; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
I’m not really sure why you post this along with verse 7, but both of these verses speak to what I’ve been saying since I typed my first words here. The sin offering is what ceased, not the covenant. Please read post 44, if you have time
Side note to Vic.
I'm not double posting but something must be making my post double when I transfer from the preview post screen to the actual post reply screen. PS still waiting on an answer from you in the name thread.
I don't want this to become an intense back and forth conversation. Right now I don't feel as if it is, however, when you start producing scripture that shows Christ not keeping the torah given by Yahuah we will carry this conversation to the end. Until then I'm leaving everything concerning it alone.
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