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sari83 · 04-29-2011, 09:03 AM

(04-28-2011 10:37 PM)Mary Wrote: Now, your quoting of the verses from1 John: what is the context of those? note: the "old commandment is the word which you have had from the beginning" - Jesus.

I also quoted from 1 John a few posts back. It's referring specifically to commandments. If you put it in it's immediate context without leaving any verses out it reads:

I Jn 2:1-8
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
(KJV)

Rose of Shushan · 04-29-2011, 10:10 AM

Quote:It seems that Moses had the temporary role of mediator between God and the people . [Exod 32:32 Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. (KJV)] The Levitical Priesthood also established the temporary position of the High Priest as the intercessor for the sins of the people. I think Moses understood, (as he was told to make a picture of what God showed him on the mountain) that these measures were only a picture of what was to come in the future.

Really well put Sari .Many lose sight that the measures were,like you said, a picture of what was to come in the future and of the heavenly realities.

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Ne'arYah · 05-08-2011, 12:34 PM

(04-28-2011 10:37 PM)Mary Wrote: Shalom Mary!

Listen I think it’s great that you got what you did from this story equally the same; however, I’m not seeing where this is telling us that Yahusha (Jesus) has a new law given to us. I’ve provided a few verses back as to what that law will cause us to do through Ezekiel 36:27. The law points us back to the fathers law. His law is the Torah. I’m really having a hard time seeing how we break that cycle and insert Yahusha laws in there when his laws come from the Torah, which I also provided previously Lev 19:18 and Deut 5.

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
(1 John 2:7-8)

Hello Ne'arYah,

regretfully, you seem to not see God's truth here. In the Law, these men are instructed not to oppress a stranger and and not to Kill (Exodus 20 - 22) yet they walk on by, perhaps content in that they have not oppressed directly, nor attacked him. They show no mercy and refuse to bear the stranger's burdens: look at Galatians chapter 5 and also chapter 6 verse 2 :Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Now, your quoting of the verses from1 John: what is the context of those?
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Go back also to the Gospel of John: Chapter 1: vs 1-4

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

note: the "old commandment is the word which you have had from the beginning" - Jesus.

Sorry it took me so long to reply.

I must be missing the truth on this. All I’m seeing you do is support what I’m saying. In the beginning means that even then his law was with them through Yahusha (Jesus).

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. ( 1 Cor 10:1-4)

What we see in these stories is that even then he was trying to guide and protect them/us, no different than now. I’ll simply repeat myself and say that Yahusha (Jesus) is the torah the living torah. This is why we become like little lights of Yahuah (God) by keeping his commandments we become more like Yahusha (Jesus). Through John we are told to walk just as he walked

6He who is saying in him he doth remain, ought according as he walked also himself so to walk.
(1 John 2:6 young’s literal translation)

If we can agree that he walked under torah, than how do we arrive to a new conclusion?
The story you mentioned isn’t teaching us anything new about the law? But it shows us that it was the people were changing, not the law. The people didn’t get the torah and he was helping them grasp it. Again these are the heavy matters of the law, not a new law.

Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and did neglect the weightier things of the Law -- the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith; these it behoved [you] to do, and those not to neglect. (Matthew 23:23)

Mary · 05-16-2011, 05:04 AM

(05-08-2011 12:34 PM)NearYah Wrote:
(04-28-2011 10:37 PM)Mary Wrote: Shalom Mary!

Listen I think it’s great that you got what you did from this story equally the same; however, I’m not seeing where this is telling us that Yahusha (Jesus) has a new law given to us. I’ve provided a few verses back as to what that law will cause us to do through Ezekiel 36:27. The law points us back to the fathers law. His law is the Torah. I’m really having a hard time seeing how we break that cycle and insert Yahusha laws in there when his laws come from the Torah, which I also provided previously Lev 19:18 and Deut 5.

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
(1 John 2:7-8)

Hello Ne'arYah,

regretfully, you seem to not see God's truth here. In the Law, these men are instructed not to oppress a stranger and and not to Kill (Exodus 20 - 22) yet they walk on by, perhaps content in that they have not oppressed directly, nor attacked him. They show no mercy and refuse to bear the stranger's burdens: look at Galatians chapter 5 and also chapter 6 verse 2 :Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Now, your quoting of the verses from1 John: what is the context of those?
"That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

Go back also to the Gospel of John: Chapter 1: vs 1-4

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men."

note: the "old commandment is the word which you have had from the beginning" - Jesus.

Sorry it took me so long to reply.

I must be missing the truth on this. All I’m seeing you do is support what I’m saying. In the beginning means that even then his law was with them through Yahusha (Jesus).

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. ( 1 Cor 10:1-4)

What we see in these stories is that even then he was trying to guide and protect them/us, no different than now. I’ll simply repeat myself and say that Yahusha (Jesus) is the torah the living torah. This is why we become like little lights of Yahuah (God) by keeping his commandments we become more like Yahusha (Jesus). Through John we are told to walk just as he walked

6He who is saying in him he doth remain, ought according as he walked also himself so to walk.
(1 John 2:6 young’s literal translation)

If we can agree that he walked under torah, than how do we arrive to a new conclusion?
The story you mentioned isn’t teaching us anything new about the law? But it shows us that it was the people were changing, not the law. The people didn’t get the torah and he was helping them grasp it. Again these are the heavy matters of the law, not a new law.

Woe to you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye give tithe of the mint, and the dill, and the cumin, and did neglect the weightier things of the Law -- the judgment, and the kindness, and the faith; these it behoved [you] to do, and those not to neglect. (Matthew 23:23)

I really think you need to do a deep and serious study of Galatians Ne'arYah. It will bring you a lot nearer to God.

How many times did Jesus heal on the Sabbath, and touch the unclean? He said he was one with the Father, and was accused of blasphemy... he broke the law, and was cursed: he hanged on a tree (cross) as punishment for breaking the law, and in doing so took on the curse for you and me, so that we could receive the gift of Abraham - Faith.

Have you rejected this gift, and remain clinging to the law? It is of no effect. You will not be able to keep it. The law was "added" because of transgressions - now Christ has 'taken it away'.

Mary · 05-16-2011, 06:29 AM

Does Christ bring a new law? As has been said already, yes:

John 13:34

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

what is new about this commandment? "as I (Jesus Christ) have loved you."

The New Covenant, with the new law is all about Jesus Christ: His blood, His resurrection, our salvation through Him, and His law written on our hearts by His Holy Spirit. Can we keep the new commandment without Him? No.

Ne'arYah · (This post was last modified: 05-16-2011 05:09 PM by Vic.)

Did Jesus teach a new law? No!

Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command, but an old command that you have had from the beginning. The old command is the message you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new command, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. ( 1 John 2:7-8). His command is that we walk in him just as he walked. This is a call to action not spiritual truth. It involves both plain and simple. Perhaps we can walk through Galatians together lead by you since you feel I'm missing something. I'm still waiting for someone to find this separation law that Peter broke according to the Torah in Galatians 2:14.

I'll say it again since my words are falling on death ears anyway. Jesus DELETED did not sin according to the Law of Moses and it says so in the scriptures.

For you were called to this,
because Christ also suffered for you,
leaving you an example,
so that you should follow in His steps.
22 He did not commit sin,
and no deceit was found in His mouth; ( 1 Peter 2:21-24) {{{{{VERSION??????}}}}

This little passage alone aside from the many I’ve given from the scriptures (Gen.- Mal.) all say the same thing. That he could not have sinned nor taught anyone anything but the Torah.

In his time period they didn't hang him for not keeping the law though he was punished by it for our sins. But they caught him on the tradition of the fathers. These laws were past down from Father to Son and back then it was known as the oral Torah, now called rabbinical Judaism, Oral Law, Talmud. Those laws were a burden on people so much so, that we see them constantly finding fault in our master because he did not keep them. He kept the Torah, the law of our Father. The same one Peter goes on to say you should stride to be like literally.

Rose of Shushan · 05-16-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:I'll say it again since my words are falling on death ears anyway. Jesus (Yahusha) did not sin according to the Law of Moses and it says so in the scriptures.

Who is saying He sinned? You seem to have a habit of answering things that aren't said and in turn ignoring things that are said. No1

Mary · 05-16-2011, 05:23 PM

(05-16-2011 03:46 PM)NearYah Wrote: Did Jesus teach a new law? No!

Dear friends, I am not writing you a new command, but an old command that you have had from the beginning. The old command is the message you have heard. 8 Yet I am writing you a new command, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining. ( 1 John 2:7-8). His command is that we walk in him just as he walked. This is a call to action not spiritual truth. It involves both plain and simple. Perhaps we can walk through Galatians together lead by you since you feel I'm missing something. I'm still waiting for someone to find this separation law that Peter broke according to the Torah in Galatians 2:14.

I'll say it again since my words are falling on death ears anyway. Jesus DELETED did not sin according to the Law of Moses and it says so in the scriptures.

For you were called to this,
because Christ also suffered for you,
leaving you an example,
so that you should follow in His steps.
22 He did not commit sin,
and no deceit was found in His mouth; ( 1 Peter 2:21-24) {{{{{VERSION??????}}}}

This little passage alone aside from the many I’ve given from the scriptures (Gen.- Mal.) all say the same thing. That he could not have sinned nor taught anyone anything but the Torah.

In his time period they didn't hang him for not keeping the law though he was punished by it for our sins. But they caught him on the tradition of the fathers. These laws were past down from Father to Son and back then it was known as the oral Torah, now called rabbinical Judaism, Oral Law, Talmud. Those laws were a burden on people so much so, that we see them constantly finding fault in our master because he did not keep them. He kept the Torah, the law of our Father. The same one Peter goes on to say you should stride to be like literally.

Lets start at Galatians 1: 1-5

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

what is this "other gospel"? what does "perverting" the gospel of Christ mean?

Mary · 05-17-2011, 04:07 AM

"For you were called to this,
because Christ also suffered for you,
leaving you an example,
so that you should follow in His steps.
22 He did not commit sin,
and no deceit was found in His mouth; ( 1 Peter 2:21-24) {{{{{VERSION??????}}}} "

It's a pity you left out verses 23 and 24: (from KJV)

23. Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Jesus was the sacrifice for all our sins- atonement, redemption, salvation. He ended it,by accepting God's righteous judgement. The law of Moses contained sacrifices for atonement of sin - Christ's death took that away. with Christ's new law, we have a new priest - Christ . He is the law, he is the priest, he is the sacrifice: it is new it is not the law of Moses.

Rose of Shushan · (This post was last modified: 05-17-2011 04:44 PM by Rose of Shushan.)

Totally agree with your posts Mary and I too await Nearyah's amswer to where you asked

Quote:what is this "other gospel"? what does "perverting" the gospel of Christ mean?

Quote:Jesus was the sacrifice for all our sins- atonement, redemption, salvation. He ended it,by accepting God's righteous judgement. The law of Moses contained sacrifices for atonement of sin - Christ's death took that away. with Christ's new law, we have a new priest - Christ . He is the law, he is the priest, he is the sacrifice: it is new it is not the law of Moses.

If Nearyah wants to stay in the Mosaic Covenant then Jesus isn't his High Priest,he needs to find an aaronic one instead and go by the Mosaic law regarding sacrifices and the like.