Speaking in Tongues

[sheep wrecked]

(05-18-2009 12:38 PM)Liberated by Faith Wrote:  Again, I would disagree. The Greekk word for 'These" is different that the Greek word for 'We". Peter uses both words in the book of Acts. Notice in Chapter 3 he uses the word 'we' when referring to himself and John collectively. He was not including himself in the second Chapter, but he was in the third.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

[Liberated by Faith]

(05-18-2009 01:36 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  

(05-18-2009 12:38 PM)Liberated by Faith Wrote:  Again, I would disagree. The Greekk word for 'These" is different that the Greek word for 'We". Peter uses both words in the book of Acts. Notice in Chapter 3 he uses the word 'we' when referring to himself and John collectively. He was not including himself in the second Chapter, but he was in the third.

Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

You left out an important verse.

Quote:Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

The 'these' referred to were the Gentiles that heard the Word... again, Peter was not including himself in the speaking in tongues. He stated that the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost as the believers did previously. In the above passage, when Peter used 'these,' he referred to the Gentiles; when he used 'us' and 'we' he referred to the believers who were previously saved and baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Notice Peter did not say 'These received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues as well as we.' He said, "These received the Holy Ghost as well as we."

Not all who receive the Holy Ghost speak in tongues. Paul's epistle there states that no all speak in tongues. Yet, for some reason, people want to make tongues a must in the life of a believer.

[sheep wrecked]

(05-18-2009 01:58 PM)Liberated by Faith Wrote:  Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

You left out an important verse.

Quote:Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

The 'these' referred to were the Gentiles that heard the Word... again, Peter was not including himself in the speaking in tongues. He stated that the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost as the believers did previously. In the above passage, when Peter used 'these,' he referred to the Gentiles; when he used 'us' and 'we' he referred to the believers who were previously saved and baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Notice Peter did not say 'These received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues as well as we.' He said, "These received the Holy Ghost as well as we."

Not all who receive the Holy Ghost speak in tongues. Paul's epistle there states that no all speak in tongues. Yet, for some reason, people want to make tongues a must in the life of a believer.

sorry - but I can't help but laugh. You have really tickled me silly. As the line from shakespeare goes - "thou dost protest too much".

[Vic]

If Peter didn't speak any tongues, I wonder how he spoke to the crowd in order to explain what was happening to them and how they all understood what he was going on about? Peter was a Galilaean...

Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?...Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words...:

This verse also came to mind...

2Ti 2:14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

that they strive not about words G3054 G3361

G3054
λογομαχέω
logomacheō
Thayer Definition:
1) to contend about words
2) to wrangle about empty and trifling matters
Part of Speech: verb

[Liberated by Faith]

Even thought Peter was Galileean, his voice was recognized and understood.

Proof? Sure. He was recognized in the courtyard when Jesus was on trial. His speech was recognized and understood!

Mark 14:69-70 And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them. And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.

From the account of Peter's denial of Christ, it is apparent that the tongue of the Galileean, although different from other tongues, was understood by others. Possibly only the accent was different.

---

I might add also, that in the courtyard, apparently Peter was the only Galileean, for they targeted him because of his speech.

Luke 22:59 And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.

They thought Peter was a Disciple of Christ just because he was a Galileean. But Peter answered, "I know not the man". Surely they understood his denial??

[Vic]

(05-18-2009 03:52 PM)Liberated by Faith Wrote:  Even thought Peter was Galileean, his voice was recognized and understood.

Proof? Sure. He was recognized in the courtyard when Jesus was on trial. His speech was recognized and understood!

Mark 14:69-70 And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them. And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.

You are misunderstanding what I meant. Peter wasn't just speaking to a select few as he was in the courtyard. Peter was specifically speaking to, "men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, from every nation."

Acts 2:5-14 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8. And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9. Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10. Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11. Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13. Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. 14. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

We should examine the use of languages in first century Judea, listed below (parenthesis) are a few of the possible languages spoken in those regions at that time. Please keep in mind that the list is by no means comprehensive:

Acts 2 (written approx 63 ce)

...3. And tongues as of fire appeared to them, being distributed, and it sat on each one of them.
4 And they were all filled of the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave ability to them to speak.
5 And Jews were living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation of those under the heaven.
6 But this sound occurring, the multitude came together and were confounded, because they each heard them speaking in his own dialect.
7 And all were amazed and marveled, saying to one another, Behold, are not all these, those speaking, Galileans?
8 And how do we hear each in our own dialect in which we were born,
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites (Persian/Iranian dialects), and those living in Mesopotamia (various dialects, Syrian, Persian, Akkadian, Aramaic), both Judea (Hebrew,Aramaic,Greek) and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia (various dialects, Greek) 10 both Phrygia and Pamphylia ((various dialects,Greek), Egypt (Arabic, Greek, Aramaic), and the regions of Libya over against Cyrene (Latin,Greek, Aramaic), and the temporarily residing Romans , (Latin,Greek) both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans (Greek, Aramaic) and Arabians (Arabic, Greek, Aramaic); in our own languages we hear them speaking the great deeds of God?

Perhaps Peter spoke Greek, the language of commerce to all the men from Judea and all that dwelt at Jerusalem. Regardless. The passage is about the fulfillment of prophecy and how many came to Christ because of it.

I really don't see it edifying to strive over whether Peter spoke 10 languages or 2 at that instant. Because we do know, he was filled with the Holy Spirit, as were all others in attendance. And what Peter spoke and what the others spoke as prompted by the Holy Spirit, was understood by all those in attendance from all those nations, specifically listed in that passage, to show they spoke in other languages to those from other nations of origin. And because of that, it was the beginning of the many thousands who would come to Christ because of their witness and obedience.

I think we can probably pursue another concept concerning tongues now, don't you?

[Liberated by Faith]

(05-18-2009 04:43 PM)Vic Wrote:  

(05-18-2009 03:52 PM)Liberated by Faith Wrote:  Even thought Peter was Galileean, his voice was recognized and understood.

Proof? Sure. He was recognized in the courtyard when Jesus was on trial. His speech was recognized and understood!

Mark 14:69-70 And a maid saw him again, and began to say to them that stood by, This is one of them. And he denied it again. And a little after, they that stood by said again to Peter, Surely thou art one of them: for thou art a Galilaean, and thy speech agreeth thereto.

You are misunderstanding what I meant. Peter wasn't just speaking to a select few as he was in the courtyard. Peter was specifically speaking to, "men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, from every nation."

Acts 2:5-14 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. 6. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. 7. And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? 8. And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? 9. Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, 10. Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, 11. Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God. 12. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? 13. Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. 14. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

We should examine the use of languages in first century Judea, listed below (parenthesis) are a few of the possible languages spoken in those regions at that time. Please keep in mind that the list is by no means comprehensive:

Acts 2 (written approx 63 ce)

...3. And tongues as of fire appeared to them, being distributed, and it sat on each one of them.
4 And they were all filled of the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave ability to them to speak.
5 And Jews were living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation of those under the heaven.
6 But this sound occurring, the multitude came together and were confounded, because they each heard them speaking in his own dialect.
7 And all were amazed and marveled, saying to one another, Behold, are not all these, those speaking, Galileans?
8 And how do we hear each in our own dialect in which we were born,
9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites (Persian/Iranian dialects), and those living in Mesopotamia (various dialects, Syrian, Persian, Akkadian, Aramaic), both Judea (Hebrew,Aramaic,Greek) and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia (various dialects, Greek) 10 both Phrygia and Pamphylia ((various dialects,Greek), Egypt (Arabic, Greek, Aramaic), and the regions of Libya over against Cyrene (Latin,Greek, Aramaic), and the temporarily residing Romans , (Latin,Greek) both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans (Greek, Aramaic) and Arabians (Arabic, Greek, Aramaic); in our own languages we hear them speaking the great deeds of God?

Perhaps Peter spoke Greek, the language of commerce to all the men from Judea and all that dwelt at Jerusalem. Regardless. The passage is about the fulfillment of prophecy and how many came to Christ because of it.

I really don't see it edifying to strive over whether Peter spoke 10 languages or 2 at that instant. Because we do know, he was filled with the Holy Spirit, as were all others in attendance. And what Peter spoke and what the others spoke as prompted by the Holy Spirit, was understood by all those in attendance from all those nations, specifically listed in that passage, to show they spoke in other languages to those from other nations of origin. And because of that, it was the beginning of the many thousands who would come to Christ because of their witness and obedience.

I think we can probably pursue another concept concerning tongues now, don't you?

Peter must have spoke in one universal language... perhaps Greek, perhaps another. There were seventeen nations represented in that room at that time, and they all had to have understand Peter's dissertation. So I would think it was one language Peter spoke that was understood by all. But that gets back to... and strengthens my belief that Peter was not one of those who were speaking in tongues. He referred to a specific group when he said 'these.' More specifically... the ones speaking in tongues. Peter used the word 'we' several times in the book of transition...The Acts of the Apostles. So 'we' was in his vocabulary. Had he been one of those speaking in tongues, no doubt he would have used the word 'we' and not 'these.'

[Vic]

(05-18-2009 05:07 PM)Liberated by Faith Wrote:  Peter must have spoke in one universal language... perhaps Greek, perhaps another. There were seventeen nations represented in that room at that time, and they all had to have understand Peter's dissertation. So I would think it was one language Peter spoke that was understood by all. But that gets back to... and strengthens my belief that Peter was not one of those who were speaking in tongues. He referred to a specific group when he said 'these.' More specifically... the ones speaking in tongues. Peter used the word 'we' several times in the book of transition...The Acts of the Apostles. So 'we' was in his vocabulary. Had he been one of those speaking in tongues, no doubt he would have used the word 'we' and not 'these.'

One might well ask how Peter knew they were speaking the wonderful works of God, if he didn't receive the speaking of or understanding of tongues.

Let's clarify. There were not seventeen nations represented in the upper room. There were seventeen nations listed for those Jews that were in Jerusalem.

The 120 Galileans who received the Holy Spirit in the upper room, were given languages as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance, and that very well could have been more languages than the listed nations because of the many dialects from each nation. We are not told how many languages or dialects each was given for declaring the things of God.

We do know a multitude of people came together from all of Jerusalem because of what had taken place in that one house, Acts 2:2"and it filled all the house where they were sitting. "

Acts 1:13-15 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. 14. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren. 15. And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)...

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? ....Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

There is then record of them afterwards meeting daily in the temple. Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, ...

It is highly unlikely that over 3000 people would fit into a normal person's house. Which is what you appear to be thinking about where the multitude gathered.

It's not likely one would invite over 3000 unknown people into your home whom you didn't know and who were either thinking your were drunk or otherwise. And certainly, homes in Jerusalem were not large enough to hold over 3000 people, because that is the number that came to Christ after Peter finished speaking. That isn't necessarily all who were in attendance as part of the multitude.

Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. "

The issue over the "we" and " these" is done. It is going nowhere.

Other discussion concerning tongues can continue.

[chelsea]

I have been enjoying reading everyone's testimony!
I have been a member of a pentecostal church for 5 years, I was a very good faithfull member, but I could never speak in tongues. I had so much pressure to speak as a sign that I am saved and so on... But it never happended. I think I was really saved on that time, that's why I could not receive any evil gift. I think I received Christ in my life when I first bought a bible and started reading the whole new testament. I fell in love with the word of God and wanted him in my life so much. Unfortunately, I ended up in a pentecostal church, but fortunately I was all the way sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Amen!

[Vic]

(05-18-2009 06:18 PM)chelsea Wrote:  I have been enjoying reading everyone's testimony!
I have been a member of a pentecostal church for 5 years, I was a very good faithfull member, but I could never speak in tongues. I had so much pressure to speak as a sign that I am saved and so on... But it never happended. I think I was really saved on that time, that's why I could not receive any evil gift. I think I received Christ in my life when I first bought a bible and started reading the whole new testament. I fell in love with the word of God and wanted him in my life so much. Unfortunately, I ended up in a pentecostal church, but fortunately I was all the way sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Amen!

Hi Chelsea,

I think when you were writing me about where to go to church, you really struggled with some place to fellowship. I am really glad that you were kept from the issue of tongues. Many desire it soo much that it overrides everything else. Wherever we are, the need is to fully look to the Scriptures and allow God to open our understanding so we are kept from error. He is so faithful.