Speaking in Tongues

[chelsea]

ok everybody, here comes a new one, i have been invited to attend a meeting at church, where they will read the first book : a call to spiritual reformation by don carson. any one has read it or know who this guy is??

thanks so much

x

[sheep wrecked]

(05-25-2009 02:24 PM)chelsea Wrote:  ok everybody, here comes a new one, i have been invited to attend a meeting at church, where they will read the first book : a call to spiritual reformation by don carson. any one has read it or know who this guy is??

thanks so much

x

Carson appears to be another theologian with perhaps an altruistic desire to help people understand how to pray, but it's seems to be a developed from the view that one has to pray "right" in order for God to hear or act in this book. Carson also helped to produce the New Living Bible - a terrible version that really chops up the NT [deletes verses, phrases and words that change the theology of the Bible].

The NT shows us clearly how to pray and why. I am puzzled why all the books, concepts, practices to "improve" on God's Word. Are people just too "lazy" or should I say unmotivated to seek out God's perfect ability to show us how to communicate with Him?

And, if I may be so bold as to ask - why do churches spend so much time studying stuff like this instead of having a time together to come with ways to help the lost, preach the gospel to the unbelievers, feed the hungry, etc? It's as if people have no discernment and run after every new book on the shelf to edify themselves

One comment about the book [which made me very uncomfortable]:

Quote:It would be a very rare Christian who has always found it easy to pray. The book also addresses commonly-experienced difficulties with prayer.

This easy-to-understand, biblical book is to be recommended to anybody seeking to relearn to pray effectively and in keeping with God's plans.

http://www.ivpbooks.com/9780851109763

Carson recommends the TNIV - Today's New International Version. This version, besides which the NIV is horrible - uses "all inclusive" language. This means that whenever the Bible says "brothers", they substitute humans, they, them or some such similar words. Simply put, it changes God's Word and that is a huge no-no.

Quote:"The TNIV is more accurate than its remarkable predecessor, the much-loved NIV, while retaining all the readability of the latter. It is a version I can use with confidence, whether I am speaking at a university mission, or in a Bible conference anywhere in the English-speaking world. I am deeply impressed by the godliness, linguistic competence, cultural awareness, and sheer fidelity to Scripture displayed by the translators. Thirty or forty years from now, I suspect, most evangelicals will have accepted the TNIV as a 'standard' translation, and will wonder what all the fuss was about in their parents' generation—in the same way that those of us with long memories marvel at all the fuss over the abandonment of 'thees' and 'thous' several decades ago.
- D.A. Carson, Ph.D
Research Professor of New Testament
Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

http://www.tniv.info/reviews/index.php

I spent hrs surfing the net. I don't get a good feeling at all. He has so many associations with organizations that Vic has written about. It's just the same old rampant theological run around weaved with indoctrination into false teachings and doctrines that subtly lower God's Word into foolish human wisdom.

[chelsea]

thank you so much for all that you wrote above! I also feel very surprised why people wants to learn how to pray if the bible says that we don't know how to pray.

x

[truth pick]

(05-25-2009 05:02 PM)chelsea Wrote:  thank you so much for all that you wrote above! I also feel very surprised why people wants to learn how to pray if the bible says that we don't know how to pray.

x

Jesus taught us how to pray

Mat 6:5 And when you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Truly I say to you, They have their reward.
Mat 6:6 But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly.
Mat 6:7 But when you pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Mat 6:8 Be not you therefore like to them: for your Father knows what things you have need of, before you ask him.
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray you: Our Father which are in heaven, Hallowed be your name.
Mat 6:10 Your kingdom come, Your will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For your is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

[chelsea]

I meant romans 8:26. agree??

x

[sheep wrecked]

(05-25-2009 06:00 PM)chelsea Wrote:  I meant romans 8:26. agree??

x

Here is the scripture. I don't think it refers to praying in general. It seems to be talking about a specific prayer having to do with weakness and sickness - which is what infirmities are. There are lots of examples of prayers in the NT that help us know how to pray - most of them have to do with spiritual things like more love, wisdom, understanding, etc.

When our words are not enough, the Spirit of Christ intercedes for us. That is cool!

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemns? It is Christ that died, yes rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

[Strefanash]

It would be a very rare Christian who has always found it easy to pray. The book also addresses commonly-experienced difficulties with prayer.


Strefanash:

but prayer is dead easy. If you are trying to produce the long running monologue that hits the ceiling everytime, well that is not prayer, and it is very hard.

but a real conversation with a real Spirit (hence praying in the Spirit), the conversation generates itself just as it does when two friends are together

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QUESTION:

And, if I may be so bold as to ask - why do churches spend so much time studying stuff like this instead of having a time together to come with ways to help the lost, preach the gospel to the unbelievers, feed the hungry, etc? It's as if people have no discernment and run after every new book on the shelf to edify themselves

Stref: because they take it for granted that they in fact beleve the word of God and the gospel, so will never address the real question, namely unbelief, and certainly not by the real means, repentance of said unbelief.

never facing the real question they will never acknowledge that they do not care. not acknowledging that they do not care they chase after all this other stuff. after all they have defined themselves as those who love God when this is not the case, as seen by their behaviour (fruit)

BTW I have totally lost interest in revivals and reformations. The 16th century reformation was a hate fest where the only difference between the two sides were some scraps of sond doctrine. and christians want revival as they want dramatic events, spectacle which does not meet the need of the heart

As the gate is narrow etc you only ever seek the Lord on your own. The church should help but it will be a cold day in hell when they ever do.

So their calls for a new reformation are probably the same old legalist manifestos.

If the church is as bad as that we are on our own, seeking God alone because the others, thinking they have alrady found him, wont bother

[Rose of Shushan]

Quote:And, if I may be so bold as to ask - why do churches spend so much time studying stuff like this instead of having a time together to come with ways to help the lost, preach the gospel to the unbelievers, feed the hungry, etc? It's as if people have no discernment and run after every new book on the shelf to edify themselves

[chelsea]

There is a newish christian in our church , she said she hasn't read the bible since last christmas and she is not happy with bible studies meetings as they always go around the love of God and all the studies end like this. She doesn't feel as she is learning anything. Can't blame her. I tried to encourage her to read the bible, and suggested she would underline some passages she finds interesting and would return again and again, so one day she could refer to it (memorise and know how to apply), she said she can't think of a passage if a subject is given, like I always do in bible studies. So I gave her my way of remembering the Word, underlining passages, when you don't want or don't have the time for a serious long reading as you flick the bible those passages will hit your brain and hopefully your heat too!
I am afraid she could turn to more signs and wonders churches, I can see she needs to be fed, she sends me text messages just to ask how I am, I really don't want to scare her and feed her too much, neither leave her in need. Please pray for me to be used by God in helping her, any prctical advise here is most welcome too.

x

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(05-25-2009 11:05 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  

(05-25-2009 06:00 PM)chelsea Wrote:  I meant romans 8:26. agree??

x

Here is the scripture. I don't think it refers to praying in general. It seems to be talking about a specific prayer having to do with weakness and sickness - which is what infirmities are. There are lots of examples of prayers in the NT that help us know how to pray - most of them have to do with spiritual things like more love, wisdom, understanding, etc.

When our words are not enough, the Spirit of Christ intercedes for us. That is cool!

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:27 And he that searches the hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because he makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemns? It is Christ that died, yes rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

Good point, it should be used only in case of infermites, then? Sometimes when I pray , because I don't know God's plan or will, I just say, " if it is your will, you know the best for me etc, and I reckon I would fit in the situation that I don't know how to pray, just because I don't want to ask something that goes against his plan. So I include this verse that says that the Spirit of God intercedes for me. Is that alright??

x

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ah yesterday i was in a charity shop and i found this book that i couldn't resist:God's priority, living life from the lords prayer by J. John. I am not familiar with the author, he is a Londoner. let you know what i think of the book later. has any one read it?
x

[Strefanash]

I wont go near christian books of any kind. Ive never heard of J John, but even so. When i discovered the nature of the heresies that nearly destroyed me I had a massive clear out of "christian" books (1984) . I was not going to burn them, I did that with my russian classics etc the year of my conversion, 1978, at the behest of a religious maniac in my church. It is to my mother's credit when I tried this lunacy that she quoted Heine, the German writer, even if she did not know it :"where books burn bodies burn soon thereafter." she said. So I sold these religious stuff (no more book burnings from me, civilization must and will mean something to me!!) to a dealer who regarded the bulk of them as such trash he would not take them, the rest I got rid of for about 20 cents each at a second hand shop. It got me enough for a drink and a cake a t a cafe, I recall.

The Bible and the Spirit are enough for me