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Rose of Shushan · 04-20-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:1. Israel will be restored to the land (Zech. 10:6-12)
2. Israel will be brought through severe judgment and one third will call upon God's name (Zech. 13:8-9)
3. Israel will be redeemed (Zech. 12:10-13:1)
4. Messiah/Christ will return and defeat Israel's enemies and rule from Jerusalem (Zech. 14:1-21).

Linda after Jesús shed his blood after 70 D,a new covenant was enacted.From what I know of you I know you agree with me there. In 70 AD severe judgement, as Zechariah predicted, did befall national Israel.What did Jesus say about that generation?

Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom you slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you that kill the prophets, and stone them which are sent unto you, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and you would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Mat 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on you again forever. And presently the fig tree withered away.

The first covenant was broken by the people. God gave a new one and in it feature both jew and gentile.This belief that national Israel according to the first covenant coming to the forefront in an end times scenario is just not biblical.
Israel was redeemed at the cross.One third did come through,those that trusted and believed in our Messiah.Zechariah 14 seems to have elements that are both physical and spiritual.The city was already taken , the women raped and the people captured as slaves and taken into the nations in 70 AD.I really don’t think that the prophecy will ever be fulfilled again at all since its already been fulfilled.That day of the crucifixion was neither day nor night.it went dark at midday.(Zech 14 :6) The lights diminished as our dear Jesus hang on that cross.That fateful day when with his precious blood and death he redeemed us all.

The living waters flowing out of Jerusalem I don’t believe is real water but the water that only Jesus gives.

Joh 4:13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinks of this water shall thirst again:
Joh 4:14 But whosoever drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
Joh 7:38 He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water.
Joh 7:39 (But this spoke he of the Spirit, whom they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Quote:The only way you are going to understand "restored/redeemed" Israel is to make a clear distinction between Israel and the Church.

The church is made up of redeemed Israel and the gentiles.
The only national Israel I see today is the jewish people and they are still but they still have to enter in via our Messiah.The Sinai covenant has been superseded by the new one so it profits the flesh nothing now to be a descendant of Israel /Jacob if we have not the Messiah. Your ancestry and my ancestry will not save us.Only Jesus can.

Quote:The apostles and those Jews from every nation under heaven are not "restored/redeemed" Israel. These Jews are individually saved Jews...just as Gentiles are individually saved Gentiles. Saved Jews and Gentiles form "one new man" (Ephesians 2:15).

Linda Israel was a people not a country.Israel were Israel even when scattered to the four corners to the earth. Additionally I recall that Paul called this mixture of redeemed jew and gentile the Israel of God.He also recognized himself to be of the remnant spoken of in the prophets.

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained that which it seeks for; but the election has obtained it, and the rest were blinded

The prophets only foretold a remnant of Israel would be saved

Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Quote:Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: (1 Corinthians 10:32)

Yes jews,physical descendants of Jacob..gentiles,non descendants, and the church of God ,composed of both.

John also understood that Zechariah was being fulfilled since he applies the prophecy of Zech 12 :10 to the circumstances surrounding the crucifixion.

Joh 19:37 And again another scripture says, They shall look on him whom they pierced.