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~~LindaR~~ · 04-20-2009, 08:48 PM

Rose of Shushan Wrote: Linda after Jesús shed his blood after 70 D,a new covenant was enacted.From what I know of you I know you agree with me there. In 70 AD severe judgement, as Zechariah predicted, did befall national Israel.What did Jesus say about that generation?

The New Covenant in His blood was enacted at the Last Supper:

For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. (Matthew 26:28)

not after 70 AD.

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD by the armies of Titus was not the judgment which was predictied in Zechariah.

Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. (Zechariah 14:1-4)

This is speaking of the Second Coming...when Jesus Christ returns to the earth to save Israel from being destroyed by the nations of the world....it's called the battle of Armageddon.

Quote:The first covenant was broken by the people. God gave a new one and in it feature both jew and gentile.This belief that national Israel according to the first covenant coming to the forefront in an end times scenario is just not biblical.

Which covenant? The first covenant which God made was with Abraham...and it was an unconditional and eternal covenant. (Genesis 12 & 15). The Davidic covenant was also unconditional and eternal. Therefore Israel could not break it, because it was all of God, no "conditions" attached.

Quote:Israel was redeemed at the cross.

I disagree...Israel was not redeemed at the cross. Individual Jews were redeemed by faith. National Israel remains in unbelief until this day.

Quote: The church is made up of redeemed Israel and the gentiles.
The only national Israel I see today is the jewish people and they are still but they still have to enter in via our Messiah.The Sinai covenant has been superseded by the new one so it profits the flesh nothing now to be a descendant of Israel /Jacob if we have not the Messiah. Your ancestry and my ancestry will not save us.Only Jesus can.

The church is made up of born again Jews and Gentiles who have put their trust in the finished work of Christ on the cross. The National Israel we see today remains in unbelief...until the Church is raptured, at which time, God will again turn back to fulfill His covenant with Israel. (the 70th week of Daniel 9:24-27). God will also pour out his wrath on the Christ rejecting world.

I never said that my ancestry had anything to do with my salvation...the ground is level at the foot of the cross. We all come to Christ the same way, whether we be Jew or Gentile. My identity is in Christ, not in the fact I have Jewish ancestry. This was one of the many errors of the Pharisees. Jesus is the only Way!

Quote:Linda Israel was a people not a country.Israel were Israel even when scattered to the four corners to the earth. Additionally I recall that Paul called this mixture of redeemed jew and gentile the Israel of God.He also recognized himself to be of the remnant spoken of in the prophets.

God called out a "people" to a "country":

Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. (Genesis 12:1-3)

In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites. (Genesis 15:18-21)

The "Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16 were the believing "remnant" who were living in the land of Israel.....individual Jews who were born again.

And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. (Galatians 6:16)

Quote: John also understood that Zechariah was being fulfilled since he applies the prophecy of Zech 12 :10 to the circumstances surrounding the crucifixion.

Joh 19:37 And again another scripture says, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Matthew 23:37-39 is the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10....that will happen after the "time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) when the nation of Israel will turn to the Lord Jesus Christ.

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (Matthew 23:37-39)