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What About The Rapture?
12-07-2009, 02:34 PM
Post: #91
RE: What About The Rapture?
Wow! That's a lot to take in and understand. Thank you for clarifying though. Do you know offhand if there is a good reference to look into that sort of "puts things in order" as far as what REALLY happens (what you just explained) and has the scripture references as well? That's probably a lot to ask for, but I'm hoping to find a good "rapture study" that will help me to understand it and retain it in my mind. Thanks again for the great posts!

Th_prraisethelord
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My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
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01-05-2010, 06:28 PM
Post: #92
RE: What About The Rapture?
I have 3 questions about this. If anyone would take the time to answer them I would appreciate it.

1st- Is Matt 24:27-28, 40-41 and Luke 17:34-37 referring to the second coming of Christ or rapture?

2nd - When it says one shall be taken and the other shall be left. Who is taken and who is left? Christians / unbelievers?

3rd - Where are they being gathered together?
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01-06-2010, 08:13 PM
Post: #93
RE: What About The Rapture?
(01-05-2010 06:28 PM)Saltyone Wrote:  I have 3 questions about this. If anyone would take the time to answer them I would appreciate it.

1st- Is Matt 24:27-28, 40-41 and Luke 17:34-37 referring to the second coming of Christ or rapture?

2nd - When it says one shall be taken and the other shall be left. Who is taken and who is left? Christians / unbelievers?

3rd - Where are they being gathered together?

Other than looking at the actual Scriptures, this isn't my forte. It's more Sheeps and possibly Rose's. However I do have a couple of questions that are sort of related.

If Christ leaves heaven in order to 'rapture' people, and then goes back to heaven, and then leaves again for His second coming, is the rapture then His second coming and His second coming then His third coming and if that is the case, what Scriptures support a third coming?
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3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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01-08-2010, 06:50 PM
Post: #94
RE: What About The Rapture?
Thinking2
From what I have been told by others Matt 24 and Luke 17 refers to the second coming of Christ. And the ones that will be left behind are actually the Christians. It is the unbelievers that will be snatched away and taken to where the carcase is. Matt 24:28; Luke17:37 They said there is no true rapture.

I believe that we will be raptured because of 1 Thes 4. I do not know if it is pre/ mid / post. 288b

1 Thes 4:16-18

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
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01-12-2010, 11:18 AM
Post: #95
RE: What About The Rapture?
(01-08-2010 06:50 PM)Saltyone Wrote:  Thinking2
From what I have been told by others Matt 24 and Luke 17 refers to the second coming of Christ. And the ones that will be left behind are actually the Christians. It is the unbelievers that will be snatched away and taken to where the carcase is. Matt 24:28; Luke17:37 They said there is no true rapture.

I believe that we will be raptured because of 1 Thes 4. I do not know if it is pre/ mid / post. 288b

1 Thes 4:16-18

For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

I fully agree that these are verses are true and those who know Christ will meet Him in the air when He returns. In the 1 Cor 15 verses, do you think this is talking about the same event? I think somewhere in this thread or another some have said this is referring to the rapture as well. And it says "at the LAST TRUMP". Those that say this believe in the pre-trib rapture-in fact view those who don't agree as heretics.

1 Corinthians 15:50-54 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

My question is---if this event is pre-trib----and it is the last trump---are there other trumps still to happen? Is there more than one 'last trump"? Th_ththink

When Christ leaves heaven in a pre-trib rapture scenario---who is left interceding for those to come to Him according to some beliefs--during the tribulation and after the rapture?
Thinking2

If Christ leaves heaven at the last trump, are the books closed so no more names can be added, and He no longer needs to be interceding because all who belong to HIm are now gathered to Him? would that be a fair statement?
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Vic
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3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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01-26-2010, 06:29 PM
Post: #96
RE: What About The Rapture?
I do not know if this is pre/mid/ post. I do believe that there is a rapture
in which I will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

2 Thes 2:7

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit does not leave the earth. He is only taken out of the way
like when a tree is taken out of the way on a road. The tree is still there,
just moved to the side so the cars can now pass by. The Holy Spirit will still be there to draw people to Christ.

My other question is if the rapture and the second coming at the last trump are the same event; then when Christ returns -
all the believers are changed and all the unbelievers are judged. Who then populates the earth during the 1000 year reign and rebels against God?
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01-26-2010, 07:27 PM
Post: #97
RE: What About The Rapture?
Quote:I do not know if this is pre/mid/ post. I do believe that there is a rapture
in which I will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

2 Thes 2:7

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit does not leave the earth. He is only taken out of the way
like when a tree is taken out of the way on a road. The tree is still there,
just moved to the side so the cars can now pass by. The Holy Spirit will still be there to draw people to Christ.
I do not see what you are seeing in that verse.Are you saying its the Holy Spirit thats removed? How can the Holy Spirit be removed if the promise of the New Covenant is that we will have His Spirit in us.
I know there are a few interpretations as to who is removed..eg Romans in power, the Roman church etc but I dont see how the Holy Spirit fits there.


Quote:My other question is if the rapture and the second coming at the last trump are the same event; then when Christ returns -
all the believers are changed and all the unbelievers are judged. Who then populates the earth during the 1000 year reign and rebels against God?

Personally I don't believe in a literal 1000 year millenium but instead believe its a metaphorical millenium which represents the time Jesus Christ rules on earth.From what I gather in the Scriptures once Jesus returns its to separate the sheep and the goats.

Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

if you read on to the end of the chapter it says some are

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


I dont see a temporary millenial reign there or anywhere else.The only time I see it is in Revelation and that is full of symbolic language which does not have to be interpreted literally.
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01-26-2010, 07:30 PM (This post was last modified: 01-26-2010 07:32 PM by sheep wrecked.)
Post: #98
RE: What About The Rapture?
(01-26-2010 06:29 PM)Saltyone Wrote:  I do not know if this is pre/mid/ post. I do believe that there is a rapture
in which I will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

2 Thes 2:7

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit does not leave the earth. He is only taken out of the way
like when a tree is taken out of the way on a road. The tree is still there,
just moved to the side so the cars can now pass by. The Holy Spirit will still be there to draw people to Christ.

I am curious why you interpret verse 7 to imply the Holy Spirit?

If the Holy Spirit does not leave the earth, then what is meant by "taken out of the way"? What is it that the Holy Spirit is taken from? How can the Holy Spirit draw people to Christ if He is "moved to the side"?


Quote:Saltyone:
My other question is if the rapture and the second coming at the last trump are the same event; then when Christ returns -
all the believers are changed and all the unbelievers are judged. Who then populates the earth during the 1000 year reign and rebels against God?

That would depend on if the 1000 years is a literal time frame. Isn't satan already rebelling against God? Is he not already the prince of the air and the god of this world?

question: Is your position that Jesus returns once or twice more times? If the rapture occurs separate from the return of Christ, then how do you explain His return and gathering believers in the air with Him? Would that be His second return and the third return after the trib?


Vic posted this: Maybe you missed it - what are your thots?

Quote:Vic:
If Christ leaves heaven at the last trump, are the books closed so no more names can be added, and He no longer needs to be interceding because all who belong to Him are now gathered to Him? would that be a fair statement?
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01-26-2010, 09:46 PM
Post: #99
RE: What About The Rapture?
Let me put in the previous verses so you can see that it is the Holy Spirit and He is only taken out of the way

2 Thes 2:3-8

3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition:
4:Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5:Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these thing?
6:And now ye know what withhold that he might be revealed in his time.
7: For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only HE who now letteth will let, until HE be taken out of the way
8: And then shall the Wicked be revealed

Amplified version
6: And now you know what is restraining him ( from being revealed at this time); it is so that he may be manifested (revealed) in his own time.
7: For the mystery of lawlessness (that hidden principle of rebellion against constituted authority) is already at work in the world, (but it is ) restrained only until HE who restrains is taken out of the way.
8: And then the lawless one (the antichrist) will be revealed

The key to these verses is taken out of the way.
These verses do not say anything about the Holy Spirit being removed. It just says the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way, like a tree taken out of the way on the road which hinders cars from going through. The tree is not removed from the earth just set aside to allow the cars to go through or like a deer that is on the road when hit by a car, then taken out of the way. The deer is still seen on the side of the road. It was just taken out of the way.


The bible says that satin has been rebelling against God for a long time now. These verses are not referring the rebellion. It is referring to the revealing of that Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition who sitteth in the temple and there is something that is restraining him from being revealed. Then it tells us what that something is - until HE ( a person, the Holy Spirit) who Restrains is taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit is restraining the revealing of the man of sin. When the man of sin is revealed the Holy Spirit will only have stopped his restrain on that revealing, not leaving the earth. So He, the Holy Spirit is still here on earth and will still draw men to Christ.



I guess that depends on if you believe the 1000 year reign is already here or if it is coming. If you believe it is already here could you give me some verses on this. Thanks.
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02-08-2011, 02:15 PM
Post: #100
RE: What About The Rapture?
I have to say that at the time I did those responses I was a pre trib, even though I saw problems with it. Just as I saw problems with the mid and post trib.

Sheep

Where does it say that we will descend to earth with him after we meet him in the air?


(12-05-2009 01:51 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  [b]Jesus said that when He returns, everyone will see Him, recognize Him, and bow down before Him. The believers will rise, as will the dead in Christ when He returns to meet Him in the air and descend to earth with Him. But ALL nations, ALL peoples will acknowledge [every eye will see, every tongue confess] Him at the same moment whether they are believers or not. It is a miraculous event. [Matt 24, Phil 2, I Cor 15, 1 Thess 4 & 5]

Mark,

The rapture is a false doctrine. It's not going to happen that way. Jesus comes back once and all people who have ever lived and are living will see Him.

[color=#9400D3]Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

The rapture is not a false doctrine, but I do believe you mean that, the way it is taught is false.
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