What About The Rapture?

[sheep wrecked]

(02-09-2011 03:46 PM)Saltyone Wrote:  Yes, this does all happen quickly, but the first thing that will happen is the sign of the Son of man coming in the clouds and everyone will see him. Now think about this. You cannot see the Son of man coming in the clouds in a nanosecond. It would be too fast. You would see nothing. The thing that will be fast is when he sends his angels with a great trumpet sound to gather his elect. This part coincides with what Paul wrote. It happens just as it is written.

Jesus will appear in a nanosecond, not for a nanosecond Everything happens at once, at the same time. Again, we are looking at the events from earth time, not God's timing. His coming is instantaneous, immediate. The second we see Him, we will rise and with the dead bodies of the saints. They will rise first, then we go up. It's not a countdown. It all happens at once. It will come to pass in a twinkling of an eye and that's pretty quick!!!

Quote:I agree with you that the Lord will came back with his saints to the earth, which is a reference to Rev 19, but in Matt 24 and in 1 Thes 4 I believe it clearly says that the Lord will come by Himself as stated above.

Does it say that?

And you did not answer my question. If the saints rise from the dead, when are they made incorruptible? Their spirits are in Heaven, not their bodies.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

2Co 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
2Co 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Quote:Rev 19 says the armies are clothed in fine white cleaned linen. That’s a reference to the saints. And they are riding white horses and clothed. So they are not invisible. You cannot make or force things to fit your belief.

From Scripture, only our spirits are with God, not our bodies. The last enemy to be overcome is death. Death refers to the human corruptible body. Which is why Paul spends most of 1 Cor 15 showing us that when Christ returns, death will have no sting, because we will be made incorruptible then, and then only. There are no saints in Heaven in corruptible bodies, nor have they been made incorruptible as of yet. This will not happen until Jesus returns - which is the hope/the goal of salvation. It's an important point that Paul clearly makes both in 1 Thess 4 and 1 Cor 15.

The armies in Heaven are referred to dozens of times in the OT, as the angels. Do you have Scripture that warriors are saints?


Rev 15:6 And the seven angels came out of the temple, having the seven plagues, clothed in pure and white linen, and having their breasts girded with golden girdles.

It is the angels who pour out the plagues and the wrath of God:

Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Rev 15:8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.