What About The Rapture?

[Saltyone]

Quote:"If the saints rise from the dead" is the same thing as "it's the dead bodies of the saints that rise".

However; 1 Thess 4 says that the dead saints rise to meet Christ in the air first and are then changed in the twinkling of an eye. Do you agree with this?

To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Why would we be present with the Lord and then be thrown back down to the earth so we can rise again? Unless you believe as a JW does that when we die we go to the grave and stay there.


The questioned I asked was:: What is the event described in Matt 24:30-31?? Meaning: is this a reference to /is this the same event as 1 Thes 4 :16-17 and 1 Cor 15:51-52.

I guess you did not read again what I showed you. The fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.

Matt 13:40-41 is not the gathering of the elect.

You hit luke 17:29-30 right on the nose. All the verses you have are really confirming what I believe to be true.

Quote:There are two things that happen at different times.
1 The Lord comes by himself to gather his elect. The key is: he comes to gather his saints and he comes by himself.

2. The Lords comes with his saints to war against the kings of the earth, to slay them and setup His kingdom and rule the nations with an Iron Rod. The key: He comes with his saints which are already in heaven

This is how I believe it to be. Otherwise you have a contradiction in the word of God

hmmm. #1 contradicts #2 in your key points.

#1 The key is: he comes to gather his saints and he comes by himself.

#2 The key: He comes with his saints which are already in heaven.

You just proved my point. If this is the same event, which you are saying it is, then it is a contradiction. They only way this can be true is if these are 2 separate events. Just as I tried to say above.

brother sheep wrecked
You are reading, but you are not understanding what you read. Because you are reading to make it fit your beliefs, and not to understand what God is trying to say. When you read, don't think you already know what something means or is telling you before you read it. Read it as if you were reading it for the first time and God will show you many things about his word.

Let me give you an example from my life this past week. I have read Eph 6 many times:
Eph 6:4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath, but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

To me it meant that I was to train up my children in the Lord. To make sure they know the Lord and all his ways. But this past week I read it again and asked the Lord to speak to me, that I may understand what he is trying to say. And this is what the Lord showed me. That I should bring them up or raise them up in such a way that is nourishing, in the nurture of the Lord. And admonish them. Its not a matter of me training them up in the Lord, but how I treat them. The nurture of the Lord. Which is the same way the Lord treats us.

Quote:I believe too that we should be about our Father in heavens business, but we should also be watchful and know the times.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always,

God tells us to watch and pray. I see this as a command, not a suggestion. Many people have a false belief of a pretrib rapture. But when the great tribulation comes and they are still here, their faith will wan. They will lose hope, wondering why the Lord has not come back yet. They will not believe in Jesus or the bible anymore because they were told that they would be raptured according the bible and it has not happened. I think it is very important to know what we believe, be watchful and pray that you will preserver until the end.

I have never really thought of "watch and pray" as meaning to watch for Jesus to come. I believe from the context that we are supposed to be concentrating on how we are living - whether it be for the Lord or not.


Well you don’t have to think of watch and pray to mean watch for Jesus to come. That’s not what it says and that’s not what I said. I said you are to know the times. Watch means to guard, observe, be aware of . If we are aware and know that war and hard times are coming we should pray lest our hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and cares of this life.
You even quoted it down below, but still do not truly understand what it means.

Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always,that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


Can you find me where Scripture speaks of "The Great Tribulation"? Thanx!


At the midpoint of the 70th week, the abomination of desolation
Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.