Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?

[sheep wrecked]

(06-01-2010 08:03 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  I believe Jesus was speaking allegorically. He was not in the Temple proper, but in Solomon's Porch which Herod built so that the gentiles could look over at the Temple and marvel at his great work. Solomon's Porch held the tables where the merchandizing was being done. My personal opinion is that Jesus never actually went into the Temple itself because it was corrupted and possibly the Pharisees would not have allowed Him entrance because they believed He spoke blasphemy.

Please let me explain my statement further. Jesus stated to the disciples that He is the Temple, so that needs to be factored into our understanding. I showed that the presence of God was no longer in the Temple, yet God allowed and honored the sacrifices to continue until Jesus died. So yes, there was a physical cleansing, which represented a spiritual one to come.

I believe that when Jesus said that the Temple was a house of prayer, He was referring to Himself. The moneychangers and sellers were certainly corrupting the physical House of God, but allegorically, Jesus was referring to all those who corrupt the Temple [Him] pretending to belong to Him. The NT shows the corruption creeping into the church and the church today is full of moneychangers and sellers charging for the "truth". As someone once said, Jesus would be tipping overquite a few tables over today if He walked among those who declared to belong to Him, but are doing nothing but merchandising the saints.

[jazzy]

[/b][/size]

---

(06-01-2010 02:59 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  

(06-01-2010 11:54 AM)jazzy Wrote:  I have no knowledge of the Talmud except for what I have been reading in Mr. Reilands book "The Third Temple and Jesus" and I have never been involved with the HR/Messianic movements!

Quote:If you have no knowledge of the Talmud, and we have tons of info here on the forum, and Vic's website, then perhaps it would be helpful to scope out the truth of it a bit.

I have been reading and I'm on Pt.4

Quote:Mr Reiland appears to be rather Talmudically minded. In other words, he is pushing it to intrepret NT scripture, the third temple and how Jesus would fit into that scenario.

I don't see it that way, it appears to me that he is making Talmud square with Scripture, not Scripture square with Talmud.

Quote:Unfortunately, the third temple, if it is built, will not have anything to do with Jesus Christ [Jesus is the Temple - not built by human hands and as we are in Christ, are also the Temple of the Holy Spirit]. Mr Reiland is simply promoting a lot of conjecture and opinion based in kabbalah and Talmud.

No building such as Ezekiel describes in 40:1-44:31 has yet been built and the prophecy can't refer to Zerubbalbel's or Herod's remodeled temple and there won't be a temple in New Jerusalem, it must be a description of the temple that is going to be on the earth during the Millenium. It can't belong to the New Earth because the land where it's located is bounded by the Sea, and the waters that flow from it flow into the sea but in the New Earth there are no more seas.

There's no Ark of the Covenant, no pot of manna, no Aaron's Rod, no Candelstick, no Shew Bread, no Altar of Incense, no Veil, no Holy of Holies where the high priest alone enters to offer atonement for sin and make intercession for the people.

Two feasts are observed, The Passover, but no Passover Lamb will be offered as Jesus fulfilled that Type (Ezek. 45:21-24), and the Feast of Tabernacles. This feast is to be observed by all nations under the penalty of "Drought" or "Plague". The Feast of Pentecost will be done away with on account of its fulfillment.

That's just a few things about the third temple.

Mr. Reiland doesn't even mention Kabbalah and it's a fact that kabbalah is dependent on Jewish Scripture and writings not the other way around.I looked in the index of his book and he doesn't even mention the Kabbalah

Quote:I was looking at a promo of his book - the Third Temple and Jesus - and saw that he spends a great deal of time on the "shekinah" of God from Moses forward. The "shekinah" is not found in Scripture. It is a created word having found its roots in kabbalah [mysticism and occultic] and is defined as the feminine presence of God. she is also called the "Mother Spirit". So his entire premise is of the occult.

I know of Christian authors that have made the same mistake about "shekinah", even my Bible dictionary mentions it.

Quote: He appears to have quite a flavor and appeal of Judaism in his writings, which denies Jesus Christ.

You may want to reconsider quoting his books as they are highly off base.

Mr. Reiland believes in Jesus and I am primarily interested in his book because of the "Red Heifer Ceremony" that is a picture of The Crucifixion, Ressurection and Ascension of Jesus on the Mount of Olives and that is where the Red Heifer ceremony took place. The ceremony is actually a burnt offering rather than a sacrfice, whereas the "sacrifices" are eaten by the priests, the burnt offerings are more Holy and the entire animal carcasses are burned at the summit of the Mount of Olives at a particular location. What's also important about it is none of the temple articles, the priests or even the temple itself would be acceptable for "cleanness" without purification from the ashes of the Red Heifer.

[jazzy]

I should have said {{if}} what Ezekiel is describing is the third Temple. The thrid temple and the Milleniel temple are probably not the same thing.

[Vic]

HI Jazzy,

First, if you are going to discuss someone's book and interpretation of the talmud --which does not align to the NT, New Covenant or prophecies concerning Jesus, then it should be in a thread dedicated to that particular book.

Next, the author does not have to state he is sourcing kabbalah to be using kabbalah because the Talmud quotes the zohar aka the kabbalah The talmud is a stepping stone into full kabbalah. And the sages who wrote the talmud were also into those very same things. When you finish reading my series on that stuff you will better grasp that trying to make the Talmud fit anything to do with prophecy and that being fulfilled by Christ is a false premise. They didn't believe Christ, therefore everything/interpretation changes. You yourself said it is not about opinion but Scripture,--which I have said countless times-- so why are you accessing a book that is about his opinion about the opinion and beliefs of those who specifically rejected Christ? In order to interpret Scripture to it?

>you said >it's a fact that kabbalah is dependent on Jewish Scripture and writings not the other way around>

The talmud and kabbalah are elevated above the Scriptures of the OT, and are viewed as more important to learn and get understanding from than the Scriptures. Kabbalah's interpretations of the various books is how undersrtanding is obtained and many prayerbooks etc are kabbalah writings--which many messianics/hr use I might add.

I am going to post in a bit of my series here:

To Embrace Hebrew Roots: Part IV

Quote:In order to fully understand what the Talmud sages believe and teach in their expansive Sacred Jewish books, we need to seek information and weigh it to the Word of God. Investigating the Hebrew Roots movement, which promotes the study of the writings of the Talmud, Midrash and Mishnah, we find the common thread of Jewish Mysticism.

The well-respected Gershom Scholem's "On the Kabbalah and Its Symbolism" gives some insight into the subliminal process through which mystics of all religions use Scripture to justify their aberrant exegesis of Scripture:

"...not my intention to discuss mystical exegesis in its concrete application to the Bible. Vast numbers of books have been written by Jewish mystics attempting to find their own ideas in, or read them into, the Biblical texts... Many productive minds among the Kabbalists found this a congenial way of expressing their own ideas, while making them seem to flow from the words of the Bible. It is not always easy, in a given case, to determine whether the Biblical text inspired the exegesis or whether the exegesis was a deliberate device, calculated to bridge the gap between the old and the new vision by reading completely new ideas into the text. But this perhaps is to take too rationalistic a view of what goes on in the mind of a mystic. Actually the thought processes of mystics are largely unconscious, and they may be quite unaware of the clash between old and new which is of such passionate interest to the historian. They are thoroughly steeped in the religious tradition in which they have grown up, and many notions which strike a modern reader as fantastic distortions of a text spring from a conception of Scripture which to the mystic seems perfectly natural. For one thing can be said with certainty about Kabbalists is this: they are, and do their best to remain, traditionalists, as is indicated by the very word Kabbalah, which is one of the Hebrew words for 'tradition.'" 1.

Some will argue that mysticism is far removed from the Judaic writings. Hebrew Roots leaders advocating the study of the Mishnah or Midrash would most likely not provide information on occultism so that we might compare. However, history reveals that mysticism has had a profound influence in Judaism, and is chiefly conveyed in the sacred writings.
"Mysticism and mystical experiences have been a part of Judaism since the earliest days. The Torah contains many stories of mystical experiences, from visitations by angels to prophetic dreams and visions. The Talmud considers the existence of the soul and when it becomes attached to the body. Jewish tradition tells that the souls of all Jews were in existence at the time of the Giving of the Torah and were present at the time and agreed to the Covenant…"2.

"The Sacred Books of the Jews, shows that the Rabbis who contributed to the Talmud did not maintain pure Biblical teachings.

"The Rabbis of the Talmud speculated on these mysteries, particularly when they were commenting on Genesis and the visions of Ezekiel. The speculations were later embroidered by new ideas that entered Jewish thought from the Syriac Greeks, the Zoroastrian Babylonians, and the Gnostic sect of the Byzantium Christians. From these foreign and domestic concepts and myths, the Jews wove into their mysticism ideas of upper and neither worlds, angels, and demons, ghosts and spirits - ideas that had been unknown or of little importance to the Jews until then." 3.

So I would suggest that the topic at hand for this thread be returned to and if we need to start other threads to address the various tangents going on we will look at that. I think if you want to discuss the scriptures about the various topics thats good, but using that book for the basis of the discussion, I dont think is the way to go. This isnt about promoting that book. This is a specific thread with a specific topic.

THis thread is so off topic.

[jazzy]

(06-03-2010 06:37 PM)Vic Wrote:  HI Jazzy,

First, if you are going to discuss someone's book and interpretation of the talmud --which does not align to the NT, New Covenant or prophecies concerning Jesus, then it should be in a thread dedicated to that particular book.

Next, the author does not have to state he is sourcing kabbalah to be using kabbalah because the Talmud quotes the zohar aka the kabbalah The talmud is a stepping stone into full kabbalah. And the sages who wrote the talmud were also into those very same things. When you finish reading my series on that stuff you will better grasp that trying to make the Talmud fit anything to do with prophecy and that being fulfilled by Christ is a false premise. They didn't believe Christ, therefore everything/interpretation changes. You yourself said it is not about opinion but Scripture,--which I have said countless times-- so why are you accessing a book that is about his opinion about the opinion and beliefs of those who specifically rejected Christ? In order to interpret Scripture to it?

>you said >it's a fact that kabbalah is dependent on Jewish Scripture and writings not the other way around>

The talmud and kabbalah are elevated above the Scriptures of the OT, and are viewed as more important to learn and get understanding from than the Scriptures. Kabbalah's interpretations of the various books is how undersrtanding is obtained and many prayerbooks etc are kabbalah writings--which many messianics/hr use I might add.

I am going to post in a bit of my series here:

To Embrace Hebrew Roots: Part IV

Quote:In order to fully understand what the Talmud sages believe and teach in their expansive Sacred Jewish books, we need to seek information and weigh it to the Word of God. Investigating the Hebrew Roots movement, which promotes the study of the writings of the Talmud, Midrash and Mishnah, we find the common thread of Jewish Mysticism.

The well-respected Gershom Scholem's "On the Kabbalah and Its Symbolism" gives some insight into the subliminal process through which mystics of all religions use Scripture to justify their aberrant exegesis of Scripture:

"...not my intention to discuss mystical exegesis in its concrete application to the Bible. Vast numbers of books have been written by Jewish mystics attempting to find their own ideas in, or read them into, the Biblical texts... Many productive minds among the Kabbalists found this a congenial way of expressing their own ideas, while making them seem to flow from the words of the Bible. It is not always easy, in a given case, to determine whether the Biblical text inspired the exegesis or whether the exegesis was a deliberate device, calculated to bridge the gap between the old and the new vision by reading completely new ideas into the text. But this perhaps is to take too rationalistic a view of what goes on in the mind of a mystic. Actually the thought processes of mystics are largely unconscious, and they may be quite unaware of the clash between old and new which is of such passionate interest to the historian. They are thoroughly steeped in the religious tradition in which they have grown up, and many notions which strike a modern reader as fantastic distortions of a text spring from a conception of Scripture which to the mystic seems perfectly natural. For one thing can be said with certainty about Kabbalists is this: they are, and do their best to remain, traditionalists, as is indicated by the very word Kabbalah, which is one of the Hebrew words for 'tradition.'" 1.

Some will argue that mysticism is far removed from the Judaic writings. Hebrew Roots leaders advocating the study of the Mishnah or Midrash would most likely not provide information on occultism so that we might compare. However, history reveals that mysticism has had a profound influence in Judaism, and is chiefly conveyed in the sacred writings.
"Mysticism and mystical experiences have been a part of Judaism since the earliest days. The Torah contains many stories of mystical experiences, from visitations by angels to prophetic dreams and visions. The Talmud considers the existence of the soul and when it becomes attached to the body. Jewish tradition tells that the souls of all Jews were in existence at the time of the Giving of the Torah and were present at the time and agreed to the Covenant…"2.

"The Sacred Books of the Jews, shows that the Rabbis who contributed to the Talmud did not maintain pure Biblical teachings.

"The Rabbis of the Talmud speculated on these mysteries, particularly when they were commenting on Genesis and the visions of Ezekiel. The speculations were later embroidered by new ideas that entered Jewish thought from the Syriac Greeks, the Zoroastrian Babylonians, and the Gnostic sect of the Byzantium Christians. From these foreign and domestic concepts and myths, the Jews wove into their mysticism ideas of upper and neither worlds, angels, and demons, ghosts and spirits - ideas that had been unknown or of little importance to the Jews until then." 3.

So I would suggest that the topic at hand for this thread be returned to and if we need to start other threads to address the various tangents going on we will look at that. I think if you want to discuss the scriptures about the various topics thats good, but using that book for the basis of the discussion, I dont think is the way to go. This isnt about promoting that book. This is a specific thread with a specific topic.

THis thread is so off topic.

I,m perfectly happy to concede to your wishes, I was just trying to reply to sheepwrecked's post, so I would expect them to do the same and stop questioning me about the subject.

[jazzy]

(05-17-2009 02:25 PM)Vic Wrote:  Many believe that during the time of the First Temple the Eastern Gate, which is also called Shushan or HaKohan gate, was the main entrance into the Temple area. Many believe that it was the gate that Jesus entered on donkey in His triumphal entry.

Matthew 21:2-11 Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an a-s-s tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me. 3. And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them. 4. All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, 5. Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an a-s-s, and a colt the foal of an a-s-s. 6. And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them, 7. And brought the a-s-s, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. 8. And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way. 9. And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest. 10. And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this? 11. And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee. **a-s-s is spelled this way due to spam prevention-otherwise it will be blocked out with ****.

If one were to stand on the Mount of Olives he could look over this Eastern Gate into the huge area presently north of the Dome of the Rock and see all the gates (at different levels) in a perfect line: the East Gate --Outer Court Gate --Inner Court Gate --Temple Entrance.

According to prophecy the Messiah would enter Jerusalem from the east. The eastern gate holds a special holiness for Jews, who believe that the Sheckinah or Divine Presence used to appear through this gate and will appear again In the meantime it is believed it must be left untouched.

The Arab Muslims call this gate The Mercy Gate and according to the Koran, the just will pass through this gate on the Day of Judgment.

This eastern gate is the only one of the eight gates in Jerusalem that is sealed. The Arabs believe that because the Jews expect their Messiah to come through this gate, they would prevent any possibility of His return. It was sealed up in 1530 AD, by the Ottoman Turks. A cemetary was planted in front of it, with the thinking being that the Jewish Messiah could not set foot into a cemetary, and therefore wouldn't arrive.

Many believe that the gate was shut to prevent the entrance of the Messiah as foretold by Old Testament Prophecies. However, we see that Ezekeiel prophecied the shutting of the gate around 600 BC

Ezekiel 44:1-3 Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. 2. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. 3. It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.

It is believed by some that Jesus entered Jerusalem through the East gate around 30 A.D.as He came down from the Mount of Olives and entered the temple according to Luke 19:28-48. The belief is that He would have entered through the original gate in the wall which was destroyed with the city by the Romans in 70 A.D. Ezekiel speaks of the closed gate that the "Prince", which is another name for the Messiah in the Old Testament and New Testament, entered. We know Jesus is the prophesied Messiah

Since Jesus is the prophesied Messiah, and fulfillment of Messianic prophecies, has He already entered through the gate? and did He come out again through that gate to be crucified?

Will He ever go through that sealed gate again?

I found an interesting passage in Ezekiel about an east gate. Read:

Ezekiel 43:4

[Rose of Shushan]

Quote:I found an interesting passage in Ezekiel about an east gate. Read:

Ezekiel 43:4 Smiley-greet013

And what was it that you found so interesting about it ?

[jazzy]

(06-05-2010 07:00 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  

Quote:I found an interesting passage in Ezekiel about an east gate. Read:

Ezekiel 43:4 Smiley-greet013

And what was it that you found so interesting about it ?

You don't find it interesting that it says:

And the glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east.

[Rose of Shushan]

I find all the Bible interesting but what is it that made it so interesting to you and in relation to this thread.

[jazzy]

(06-05-2010 10:52 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  I find all the Bible interesting but what is it that made it so interesting to you and in relation to this thread.

If it's compared with Zechariah 14, there is no mention of Jesus even entering a temple at His Second Coming, much less entering it through an east gate.

If there is a third temple on Jesus's return, it looks to me that it will be of no significance to Him.