Will Jesus Enter the Eastern Gate For the First Time or, Again?

[Vic]

HI Jazzy,

First, if you are going to discuss someone's book and interpretation of the talmud --which does not align to the NT, New Covenant or prophecies concerning Jesus, then it should be in a thread dedicated to that particular book.

Next, the author does not have to state he is sourcing kabbalah to be using kabbalah because the Talmud quotes the zohar aka the kabbalah The talmud is a stepping stone into full kabbalah. And the sages who wrote the talmud were also into those very same things. When you finish reading my series on that stuff you will better grasp that trying to make the Talmud fit anything to do with prophecy and that being fulfilled by Christ is a false premise. They didn't believe Christ, therefore everything/interpretation changes. You yourself said it is not about opinion but Scripture,--which I have said countless times-- so why are you accessing a book that is about his opinion about the opinion and beliefs of those who specifically rejected Christ? In order to interpret Scripture to it?

>you said >it's a fact that kabbalah is dependent on Jewish Scripture and writings not the other way around>

The talmud and kabbalah are elevated above the Scriptures of the OT, and are viewed as more important to learn and get understanding from than the Scriptures. Kabbalah's interpretations of the various books is how undersrtanding is obtained and many prayerbooks etc are kabbalah writings--which many messianics/hr use I might add.

I am going to post in a bit of my series here:

To Embrace Hebrew Roots: Part IV

Quote:In order to fully understand what the Talmud sages believe and teach in their expansive Sacred Jewish books, we need to seek information and weigh it to the Word of God. Investigating the Hebrew Roots movement, which promotes the study of the writings of the Talmud, Midrash and Mishnah, we find the common thread of Jewish Mysticism.

The well-respected Gershom Scholem's "On the Kabbalah and Its Symbolism" gives some insight into the subliminal process through which mystics of all religions use Scripture to justify their aberrant exegesis of Scripture:

"...not my intention to discuss mystical exegesis in its concrete application to the Bible. Vast numbers of books have been written by Jewish mystics attempting to find their own ideas in, or read them into, the Biblical texts... Many productive minds among the Kabbalists found this a congenial way of expressing their own ideas, while making them seem to flow from the words of the Bible. It is not always easy, in a given case, to determine whether the Biblical text inspired the exegesis or whether the exegesis was a deliberate device, calculated to bridge the gap between the old and the new vision by reading completely new ideas into the text. But this perhaps is to take too rationalistic a view of what goes on in the mind of a mystic. Actually the thought processes of mystics are largely unconscious, and they may be quite unaware of the clash between old and new which is of such passionate interest to the historian. They are thoroughly steeped in the religious tradition in which they have grown up, and many notions which strike a modern reader as fantastic distortions of a text spring from a conception of Scripture which to the mystic seems perfectly natural. For one thing can be said with certainty about Kabbalists is this: they are, and do their best to remain, traditionalists, as is indicated by the very word Kabbalah, which is one of the Hebrew words for 'tradition.'" 1.

Some will argue that mysticism is far removed from the Judaic writings. Hebrew Roots leaders advocating the study of the Mishnah or Midrash would most likely not provide information on occultism so that we might compare. However, history reveals that mysticism has had a profound influence in Judaism, and is chiefly conveyed in the sacred writings.
"Mysticism and mystical experiences have been a part of Judaism since the earliest days. The Torah contains many stories of mystical experiences, from visitations by angels to prophetic dreams and visions. The Talmud considers the existence of the soul and when it becomes attached to the body. Jewish tradition tells that the souls of all Jews were in existence at the time of the Giving of the Torah and were present at the time and agreed to the Covenant…"2.

"The Sacred Books of the Jews, shows that the Rabbis who contributed to the Talmud did not maintain pure Biblical teachings.

"The Rabbis of the Talmud speculated on these mysteries, particularly when they were commenting on Genesis and the visions of Ezekiel. The speculations were later embroidered by new ideas that entered Jewish thought from the Syriac Greeks, the Zoroastrian Babylonians, and the Gnostic sect of the Byzantium Christians. From these foreign and domestic concepts and myths, the Jews wove into their mysticism ideas of upper and neither worlds, angels, and demons, ghosts and spirits - ideas that had been unknown or of little importance to the Jews until then." 3.

So I would suggest that the topic at hand for this thread be returned to and if we need to start other threads to address the various tangents going on we will look at that. I think if you want to discuss the scriptures about the various topics thats good, but using that book for the basis of the discussion, I dont think is the way to go. This isnt about promoting that book. This is a specific thread with a specific topic.

THis thread is so off topic.