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Mary · 02-02-2010, 04:07 PM

(01-06-2010 11:48 AM)Vic Wrote: HI Jade, you've got a lot of topics included in this that could be put into new discussion threads. But for now just a few thoughts.

Quote:As for Luke 24 (b), 'until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled, I think the Lord is speaking of the Church. Romans 11:24-36 tells us that 'God has hardened Israels until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in'. I Cor.1,1:18-27, Jews seek signs, a stumbling block, Greeks foolishness, but we preach Christ, and God has chosed the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise. Gal. Chapter 4, in the fullness of time God sent forth His Son to redeem those who were of the law, that we might receive adoption; Abrahams 2 sons one according to the flesh, bondage, Jerusalem with many children. Issac was the child of the promise, the New Jerusalem, ( verse 29) But as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

I think that the time of the Gentiles, means the timeframe when Gentiles along with Jews come to Christ. When the gospel--and that included the mystery that salvation was offered not just to the Jews but to the Gentiles and they become one new man in Christ--is preached through all the earth. One could look at the choosing of Israel as the time for Israel aka the Jews, who were specifically chosen by God to not only proclaim Almighty God, but to preserve His Word over time. THey were given the promises and prophecies, which if they believed Moses and the prophets, were fulfilled in Christ. Where before separation from Gentiles was necessary, now in Christ, there could be no separation because of who anyone was. So now the time of the Gentiles being given opportunity for salvation is extended, until all, both Jew and Gentile, that will believe Christ are completed as His Church.

As I stated previously, Israel in part was hardened. Many thousands came to Christ at the witness of Christ Himself and then the apostles and since then. I think it's a real deception to not understand that concept, because it allows for the error that then all Israel being saved means, as with the dispensation error, that there is a separate entity of Jews aka Israel, who will come to Christ during the tribulation and that's just their tribulation and they will have salvation, but without the indwelling Holy Spirit, and they won't be able to go to heaven--kind of like lesser saints--they just get to rule on earth for the 1000 years...etc. THere's more about that in the Jewish wedding parallel. Then those who don't accept Christ get to when He returns and all will see Him and know who He is. Meaning no eternal damnation for Jews, just gentiles that reject Him. The claim is also that Jews who have been saved prior to the 'rapture' aren't actually of the nation of Israel. THese ideas so overturn Scriptures that it is unbelievable to me that some of Jewish descent actually believe this slop.

Because that's what it is. Spiritual slop that overturns Scripture after Scripture, and separates Jews and Gentiles yet again, only this time instead of the gentiles being the unspiritual and to be separated from, this time the Jews are lesser believers, yet, also special in that even tho they reject Christ now --at the very end they can believe Him. So much for one new man, which incidentally for many, they don't acknowledge that Jews are actually part of the Church, aka the Body of Christ. Suddenly all the Scriptures mentioning those thousands who came to Christ are suddenly ommitted as having that heritage. Heritage does no longer matter in Christ, but...

Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

Acts 2:37-41 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 13:31-33 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33. God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

Romans 9:24-27 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25. As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Acts 10:34-43 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35. But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all 37. That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38. How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. 39. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40. Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41. Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 10:9-21 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19. But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20. But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21. But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Deuteronomy 18:15-19 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16. According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17. And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Joh 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph

Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

Hebrews 3:5-9 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after; 6. But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. 7. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8. Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

Israel has been given opportunity through the law and the prophets, to believe them and know Christ. Jesus went to them personally, being the fulfillment of the promises. He said of those Jews who rejected Him--because thousands did believe Him and still do come to Him:

John 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Quote: in the fullness of time God sent forth His Son to redeem those who were of the law, that we might receive adoption;

[/color]THose under the law were the Jews. And Paul, a Jew, said, "that WE might receive the adoption of sons." He means redemption was offered to both Jews and Gentiles, not just Jews and not just gentiles.

Quote: I think that verse 4 ' who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called Gods or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God', is the church, and can be cross referenced to Rev. 17: 9 -18., war against the Lamb and those who are with Him.

Are you thinking in terms of a/the christian church, or the spiritual church unity in diversity that includes all beliefs that reject Christ or ?

Quote:What I find interesting is why when in fact, Jesus did so many signs and wonders through His many miracles of feeding the 5000, healing the blind, disappearing through walls when they wanted to stone Him, and yet they didn’t believe. The Gentiles did believe, as a result the Gentiles were grafted into the branch and there is no more Jew or Gentile but only one body and Christ is the Head of the Body. They are enemies of the gospel for our sake, as Paul said in verse 32. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

As discussed, many many thousands of Jews did believe. Scripturally a third is saved--it evade me for the moment--I know it's in some posts. When asked about that, those who claim all Israel will be saved when they see Christ return---they ignore those Scriptures. I believe it's important to really understand the New Covenant and all verses pertaining to the promises it contained in order to understand the end results of it. Many are denying the New covenant as being first to Israel and offered to all Israel as well as all mankind. JUst as not all gentiles accepts Christ, not all Israel accepts Christ.

Do you have a Scripture that says Jesus walked through walls to evade people?

I've just been reading Romans Chapter 10, and think that the explanation is given there, and summed up in verse 25: " For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in." - so I agree with you on this Vic -" I think that the time of the Gentiles, means the timeframe when Gentiles along with Jews come to Christ. When the gospel--and that included the mystery that salvation was offered not just to the Jews but to the Gentiles and they become one new man in Christ--is preached through all the earth."

Romans chapter 10 is quite difficult to grasp at first, but beautifully hopeful and enlightening once you do!

abide · 02-03-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:by Jade
I think that verse 4 ' who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called Gods or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God', is the church, and can be cross referenced to Rev. 17: 9 -18., war against the Lamb and those who are with Him.

Ok I'm a little confused I have been reading this post and are you saying that this verse refers to the church. I have always thought this referes to the antichrist could you please verifiy your understanding on this?

Mary · (This post was last modified: 02-03-2010 03:48 PM by Mary.)

Just re-read my post which I did quickly yesterday morning - I need to make a correction - I was reading Romans chapters 10 and 11 and the verse I quoted is from chapter 11 not 10. Sorry about that. I was reading chpt 10 and became engrossed and didn't realise I'd gone on into chapter 11.

sheep wrecked · 02-04-2010, 06:25 PM

(02-03-2010 11:20 AM)abide Wrote: Quote:by Jade
I think that verse 4 ' who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called Gods or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God showing himself that he is God', is the church, and can be cross referenced to Rev. 17: 9 -18., war against the Lamb and those who are with Him.

Ok I'm a little confused I have been reading this post and are you saying that this verse refers to the church. I have always thought this referes to the antichrist could you please verifiy your understanding on this?

Here's the verse in context:

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

In verse 3 we are told there will a falling away that the man of sin be revealed who is the son of perdition.

The son of perdition means that he is cursed/damned. I don't think this refers to the church, at least according to Biblical definition, because the church is the body of Christ. I understand that today, the word church means something a little differently and encompasses a broader application. But if we keep to the Biblical meaning, it is not believers who set themselves up as God Biggrin

There are probably a couple of ways to look at verse 4, but personally, I don't think it says that the son of perdition is going to set himself up in the Temple of God. We are the Temple of God and are not worshiped. I will even push it further by stating that I don't think the verse even implies that the son of perdition will sit in the Temple. I read the verse as saying that the son of perdition exalts himself and worshiped just like God when God sat in the Temple and thereby shewing himself to be God. The word "as" is twisted in the modern versions to imply actually sitting in the Temple.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

What I am reminded of is this passage:

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Goldenmean · 04-05-2010, 03:16 PM

I also agree that OT & NT prophecy can apply to events that have already take place, as well as eschatological events which have yet come to pass...

I see prophecy as having many layers of scale... like a fractal... in time & space.
It can be applied to an individual's own conscience & consciousness... as well as the collective reality that we all share...

From my own research, I have learned that the Israelites have already fashioned the tools and seamless garments for the 3rd Temple, and they have discovered a flawless red heifer... While the Dome of the Rock currently occupies the Temple mount, there is a growing international ecumenical movement that is working towards the eventual rebuilding of the Temple, possibly alongside the Muslim mosque...

My interpretation of "the fullness of the Gentile" means that the Gospel must be offered to everyone on Earth, each of us given the opportunity to accept salvation through Jesus Christ, before the next phase of God's plan for humanity will begin.

Then God will allow the Jews who currently occupy Palestine to rebuild the Temple and begin the animal sacrifices... This will begin the phase when the Jews who have rejected Jesus Christ will come into their own, first led by and then betrayed by the Antichrist... this will lead to a third of the Jews to finally realize that they have been misled by the Pharisees/Rabbis for 2000 years, and they will mourn the death of Jesus, and embrace Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of the Hebrew prophets visions of the coming Messiah... two thirds of the Jews will stand by the Antichrist, and will be cast into hell along with the Son of Perdition...

I pray that my secular jewish friends awaken to the reality of God, and not follow the traditions of men, that they may be among the third of the Jews that enter the kingdom of God....

Rose of Shushan · 04-05-2010, 04:25 PM

Quote:Then God will allow the Jews who currently occupy Palestine to rebuild the Temple and begin the animal sacrifices... This will begin the phase when the Jews who have rejected Jesus Christ will come into their own, first led by and then betrayed by the Antichrist... this will lead to a third of the Jews to finally realize that they have been misled by the Pharisees/Rabbis for 2000 years, and they will mourn the death of Jesus, and embrace Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of the Hebrew prophets visions of the coming Messiah... two thirds of the Jews will stand by the Antichrist, and will be cast into hell along with the Son of Perdition...

Goldenmean does the New Testament teach this regarding the Jewish people?
Could you maybe explain from Scripture why you are arriving at the above conclusion.Then I'd be able to better understand why you think all that will happen.

sheep wrecked · (This post was last modified: 04-05-2010 07:01 PM by sheep wrecked.)

(04-05-2010 03:16 PM)Goldenmean Wrote: From my own research, I have learned that the Israelites have already fashioned the tools and seamless garments for the 3rd Temple, and they have discovered a flawless red heifer... While the Dome of the Rock currently occupies the Temple mount, there is a growing international ecumenical movement that is working towards the eventual rebuilding of the Temple, possibly alongside the Muslim mosque...

There have been other "flawless" red heifers, up to 10, I have read. They have to make it to 3-4 years old and didn't - as a "flaw" was found. This latest red heifer, introduced just this year was supposed to be sacrificed on March 30 according to some reports. There is no information as to how old it is or where it is supposed to be located. Most information is inconclusive and conjecture. Even the Temple Institute has not referred to the current red heifer.

What I did find on their website was an extensive series of articles on the red heifer, the temple, and the purification process. In order for the red heifer to be sacrificed, there has to be a Temple first, as part of the ashes are used within the court. I do not see this happening. As with the previous red heifers, I believe this one will also be rendered "flawed". Some have said that if the Rabbis get frustrated enough, they might pluck any white hairs, but that could be speculation.

Quote:The Divine ordinance of purification through the ashes of the
RED HEIFER,
as outlined in the book of Numbers, chapter 19

Biblical law is concerned with several types of impurity which have a direct affect on everyday life, especially when the Holy Temple is standing. The most severe type of impurity is that which is caused by exposure to death. There are several methods for restoring purity, most notably immersion in water - but the Bible's exclusive antidote to the impurity of death is purification by sprinkling of the red heifer's ashes. Many of the thousands who arrived at the Holy Temple had to undergo this process before they could enter into the Court.
Special Requirements

The ordinance of the red heifer has detailed requirements which must be met. Some of these are directly relayed in the Biblical verses of Numbers chapter 19; many others were transmitted orally to Moses and than passed down by the rabbis throughout the generations, until the present day. These are expounded upon in the writings of the Oral Tradition.

The heifer must be three years old and perfect in its redness. This means that the presence of as few as two hairs of any other color will render it invalid; it is related that for this reason, the red heifer was always very expensive to procure. Even its hooves must be red. It must also be totally free from any physical blemish or defect, whether internal or external.

Although the red heifer is not a sacrifice per se, for it is not slaughtered in the Temple, it is forbidden that the heifer should possess any of those blemishes which render any sacrifice invalid - such as those enumerated in the book of Leviticus, chapter 22. The red heifer also has an additional, unique requirement: it must have never been used to perform any physical labor. In fact, using the animal in any physical sense at all would render it invalid, even for the slightest, most minor thing. This would include riding, or even leaning on her. The only exception would be some labor which is intrinsically necessary for the heifer's own welfare, such as tying her for her own safety. But if a yoke were placed upon her even once, even if she were not used to plow - this would be enough to render the heifer unfit for use. Thus Scripture states, "that a yoke never went on."

The commandment calls for the animal to be a "heifer," that is, 3 or 4 years old; although an older animal could also be used. Since the verse instructs us to take a heifer, we do not purchase a calf and wait for it to grow older while in our custody; "and take a heifer" means that the act of acquisition has to take place while the animal is a heifer. However, if a red calf is available, a price can be set with its owner, and the transaction can be concluded, but we do not take possession until it reaches the proper age as mandated by the Bible.

The animal which meets these requirements and others could be used to fulfill the commandment of providing the ashes for the purification process. This heifer must be brought to the "Mount of Annointment," a precise location on the Mount of Olives, opposite the eastern gate of the Temple Mount. There the heifer must be slaughtered and burned. Afterwards, its ashes are mixed together with natural spring water. It is this solution, called by the Bible "the waters of sanctification," which is used to sprinkle on those who are impure.

http://www.templeinstitute.org/red_heife...ements.htm

I also ran across a website of a "Messianic Christian" who is shipping red heifers to Israel to provide them with a flawless one. There is a donate button so you too can be a part of "prophetic history" being made and ushering in the "rapture" by supporting the supposed third temple and the supposed occupation by the anti-christ Biggrin

I am not even going to dignify that scam by putting up the link Sign0170

Goldenmean · 04-07-2010, 09:31 PM

(04-05-2010 04:25 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:
Quote:Then God will allow the Jews who currently occupy Palestine to rebuild the Temple and begin the animal sacrifices... This will begin the phase when the Jews who have rejected Jesus Christ will come into their own, first led by and then betrayed by the Antichrist... this will lead to a third of the Jews to finally realize that they have been misled by the Pharisees/Rabbis for 2000 years, and they will mourn the death of Jesus, and embrace Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of the Hebrew prophets visions of the coming Messiah... two thirds of the Jews will stand by the Antichrist, and will be cast into hell along with the Son of Perdition...

Goldenmean does the New Testament teach this regarding the Jewish people?
Could you maybe explain from Scripture why you are arriving at the above conclusion.Then I'd be able to better understand why you think all that will happen.

Sure... in Revelations 13:12-18.... I interpret the "Beast" to be the Roman Catholic Church, which was created by the Pharisees who had put a Christian veneer onto this Pagan Religion, in much the same way that the Pharisees had put a Hebrew veneer onto their Babylonian Paganism, that Jesus Christ had railed against....
The Roman Catholic Church was destroyed at one point, but had revived...
THe modern Ecumenical movement uniting Protestant, Hebrew Roots, Pentacostal, & other faiths like Islam, are all coming under the Catholic Tent, which will become the One-World Religion ...
Rev 13:13&14 refers to the Anti-Christ performing wonders & miracles to decieve them that dwell on the earth...
in Matthew 16:4 Jesus Christ explains that a wicked & adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, in reference to to the Pharisees & those under their spell...
Elsewhere in the NT, The Jews are described as those who look after a sign, whereas the Gentiles (Greeks) are those who seek God through Reason...
I believe that Most Jews have been misled for 2000 years based on the heresy written in the Babylonian Talmud & the Kabbala, and the false leadership of the pharisees & Rabbis who have created a system of Tradition for the Jews, that has
only the outward appearance, but has little to do with The One True God of Abraham. They have bought the lie that Jesus was not the Messiah, that the Jewish people themselves are their own collective messiah... and secular Jews of today believe that He was a great teacher at best, or never even existed...
Anyone who has not accepted Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior will be fooled by these lying signs & wonders to come, even the very elect... It is my understanding that the Jews are the "elect", as they will have a final chance to accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah... however, due to the power of Groupthink, which is even stronger when it is one's own family, culture, religious traditions, & understanding of history that tend to reinforce their belief system...
However, once the Anti-Christ betrays them, many will wake up and accept the bitter truth...

Mary · 04-08-2010, 05:19 AM

(04-07-2010 09:31 PM)Goldenmean Wrote:
(04-05-2010 04:25 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:
Quote:Then God will allow the Jews who currently occupy Palestine to rebuild the Temple and begin the animal sacrifices... This will begin the phase when the Jews who have rejected Jesus Christ will come into their own, first led by and then betrayed by the Antichrist... this will lead to a third of the Jews to finally realize that they have been misled by the Pharisees/Rabbis for 2000 years, and they will mourn the death of Jesus, and embrace Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of the Hebrew prophets visions of the coming Messiah... two thirds of the Jews will stand by the Antichrist, and will be cast into hell along with the Son of Perdition...

Goldenmean does the New Testament teach this regarding the Jewish people?
Could you maybe explain from Scripture why you are arriving at the above conclusion.Then I'd be able to better understand why you think all that will happen.

Sure... in Revelations 13:12-18.... I interpret the "Beast" to be the Roman Catholic Church, which was created by the Pharisees who had put a Christian veneer onto this Pagan Religion, in much the same way that the Pharisees had put a Hebrew veneer onto their Babylonian Paganism, that Jesus Christ had railed against....
The Roman Catholic Church was destroyed at one point, but had revived...
THe modern Ecumenical movement uniting Protestant, Hebrew Roots, Pentacostal, & other faiths like Islam, are all coming under the Catholic Tent, which will become the One-World Religion ...
Rev 13:13&14 refers to the Anti-Christ performing wonders & miracles to decieve them that dwell on the earth...
in Matthew 16:4 Jesus Christ explains that a wicked & adulterous generation seeketh after a sign, in reference to to the Pharisees & those under their spell...
Elsewhere in the NT, The Jews are described as those who look after a sign, whereas the Gentiles (Greeks) are those who seek God through Reason...
I believe that Most Jews have been misled for 2000 years based on the heresy written in the Babylonian Talmud & the Kabbala, and the false leadership of the pharisees & Rabbis who have created a system of Tradition for the Jews, that has
only the outward appearance, but has little to do with The One True God of Abraham. They have bought the lie that Jesus was not the Messiah, that the Jewish people themselves are their own collective messiah... and secular Jews of today believe that He was a great teacher at best, or never even existed...
Anyone who has not accepted Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior will be fooled by these lying signs & wonders to come, even the very elect... It is my understanding that the Jews are the "elect", as they will have a final chance to accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah... however, due to the power of Groupthink, which is even stronger when it is one's own family, culture, religious traditions, & understanding of history that tend to reinforce their belief system...
However, once the Anti-Christ betrays them, many will wake up and accept the bitter truth...

So, the Pharisee's who rejected Christ, started the Roman Catholic religion, by pretending to accept him, and tricked many people into a false Christianity, which is really Paganism and its all a conspiracy of the Pharisees over the last few thousand years?

Goldenmean · 04-08-2010, 06:42 AM

So, the Pharisee's who rejected Christ, started the Roman Catholic religion, by pretending to accept him, and tricked many people into a false Christianity, which is really Paganism and its all a conspiracy of the Pharisees over the last few thousand years?

Well yes... in part... however, it is not just the Pharisees, but there have been other mystery cults involved in the conspiracy as well...
(correct me if I am wrong, or if I am missing something...)

After the Zealots rebellion & the Romans destruction of the 2nd Temple, some of the Pharisees & their followers fled to Babylon, and wrote down the pagan-inspired Oral Tradition of the Mystery Schools that they had carried back to Jerusalem from the first Babylonian captivity, which became the Babylonian Talmud...
Some of the Pharisees fled north west into Europe, into Rome, Gaul, & the British Isles, and mingled with the local cultural mythologies, thus seeding the roots of Celtic & Coptic Christianity & Druidism...
Other Pharisees remained in Jerusalem, mingling into the Roman Empire, and continued to persecute the early Christians through crucifixion & throwing them to the lions... The Pharisees, seeing their power slipping away, as the more martyrs they made the quicker Christianity spread, created an Ecumenical Dominionist Pagan Religion based on Syncretic Idolatry, unifying many Pagan beliefs, gods, & holidays with a Christian veneer, in order to bring people back into the bondage of Works-based salvation with a High-priest class, that would continue their Baal-worship and blood sacrifice & sex rites (as witnessed by Ezekiel & Jeremiah) in secret...
By the early fourth century AD, Roman Emperor Constantine, in an attempt to hold together the faltering Empire, sanctified the Catholic Church as the State Religion, and at the Council of Nicea, they canonized the Catholic Bible, and continued to persecute any Christians who would not come under their authority...
Throughout the Dark Ages, Medieval period, Crusades, Inquisitions, & Counter-reformation, the Popes & Cardinals & Bishops would use the confession booth to get dirt on the leity, and then use it to manipulate them into bribery or sex... they used
indulgences to absolve themselves of their sex crimes against children, while threatening women & men with persecution if they would not submit to them...
The same thing is happening today, as the Catholic Church tries to cover up their crimes against children... There is a striking similarity with the codified laws of the Babylonian Talmud & the "fruit" of the many Catholic priests and Chasidic Rabbis who have been accused of molesting children... (this phenomenon is not limited to Judaism or Catholicism, as "mercy killings" are used in Islam to cover up the crimes of their fathers & brothers, and the Anglican Church has their own pedophile network in England & Scotland, and there have been reports of abuse within the Mormon Church, Jehovahs Witnesses, and other cults)...
There have been many news articles written about this, usually focusing on the individual cases, however, they share a common root...