Left Behind and the Pre's vs the Post's

[BeenWorkin]

There are tons of problems with the Left behind series.

The first problem is that the purpose of the Tribulation is to punish the Wicked.
And yes there will Jews getting saved in the tribulation,

Rev 7:3-12.

3 ..., Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

But the left Behind series takes a big focus on gentiles who knew the truth before the Tribulation, mocked, and denied the thruth, but received Jesus after the Rapture. But that seems to go against this piece of scripture.

Thess 2:8-12

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Thirdly the Characters never seem to read their bibles. The characters would go to "Dr. Ben Judah" and ask him what was coming next. After which he would read the next verse in revelation and "Buck Williams" and "Rayford Steel" would be like "wow". I mean if I was left behind after the Rapture, I would make it a point be a Revelation expert by the next morning.

Lastly God seems to need the "Tribulation force" to help him with his plans in the universe of Left Behind. The Characters are way smarter then "Nicolae Carpathia" and fool him every step of the way. But the bible says in

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Yes many of the Characters get killed but not without making the Antichrist look like a total Joke. And all in all in these books, the Devil is an Idiot.

[Scotchman]

(05-19-2009 04:20 PM)Vic Wrote:  

(05-19-2009 04:09 PM)YYZ Skinhead Wrote:  I wish I could recall the verse about with feigned words making merchandise of believers.)

Is this what you were looking for?

2 Peter 2:1-3

Also, notice that the LB series has become a major market in church bookstores and local religious outlets. I can't help but remember this verse as it applies to so much salesmanship going on inside churches.

No wonder churches have become 501c3 and have to have a Board of directors. The Pastor is more of a CEO more than a shepherd.

John 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise

And when God finally destroy this Worldly system of Babylon... The world cries because it loses it's Merchandise.

Revelation 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more

Unbelievable....

[a pilgrim]

I guess I'll throw in my hat, (and ya'll can figure if it's a dunce cap or not!)

Here is my take on the last part of the timeline and some of the earlier posted comments.

Let's start with these interesting numbers from Daniel:

Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

O.k., I'll confess up front, I have a hard time reconciling a 7 year trib, and we'll surely discuss that, but for the sake of the "last" of the "last days," we know for SURE about the peroid refered to in Rev. 11:

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

So, at this point we have these three period from Daniel John:
1. 1260 days, (forty-two months, 31/2 years of 360 day years.)
2. 1290 days
3. 1335 days

I was a pretribber for a long time till a dear brother, (who I thought was a kook,) challenged me about the end times. I have come to what I call Post trib, prewrath, rapture, (and stand willing to be corrected.)

I see it as we are going to be here for the entire tribulation, 1260 days and then the Lord is going to resurrect the dead and rapture the redeemed. Notice Isaiah's prophecy along with Pauls and Johns:

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

So far, I see the 1st resurrection of the dead and then the rapture of the saved. I believe this will happen on day 1260 at the end of the tribulation. But then we have Daniels 1290 days, what of them? Well, what is the difference? 30 days right? Right, and where are those 30 days?

Zec 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me

Do you remember what Isaiah said above, "Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast."

He said it was going to be a little moment. Jesus said the same thing:

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

So there is grounds to support that the actual time of God's wrath/indignation is going to be a short period of time. I believe the Lord is going to come in the clouds consistent with the testimony to receive the righteous dead and the believers. Every eye shall see him, NO SECRET RAPTURE, (sorry Tim LaHaye and pretrib secret crowd,) and the elect remnant are going to see Him...our Beloved, pierced for them.

Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

When the Jews who will believe and be saved see him, this passage from Rom. 11 will come to pass:

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

While the believing remnant hide, the believers are up at the Judgement Seat of Christ and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, waiting for the big horse ride in at the official 2nd coming. This is day 1290. The Lord brings the final defeat and claims his Kingdom that was already proclaimed at the blowing of the 7th (last) trump.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

At the blowing of the 7th (last) trump, the Kingdom is declared to be Christs, it is just a short time till he put down his enemies and establish his sovereign rule.

So, what of the 1335 days? I'm still working on that one, but I believe a brother refered to it earlier.

Quote:Mark Wrote:
But all the nations mentioned did not attack Israel as prophecied nor did the terrible aftermath (the burning of the weapons, bodies, etc.) ever happen. Sounds like something to come, not that already has happened. I don't know, just reading and trying to understand it. Thanks for your input. This is very informative and interesting getting other people's take on Scripture.

This burning of weapons and bodies could be a ceremonial cleansing of the land after the battle of Armeggedon. Thus, it will take 45 days to cleanse the land and Israel will be ushered into the Feast of Tabernacles with the blast of this trumpet:

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

I don't think this trumpet is the last trump of the church (the 7th trump,) but the great trump to call Israel into the Kingdom. The scripture I would use to support this "elect" being Israel is as follows:

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.[/b]

I'm not using "the elect" or "election" in the classic Calvinistic sense, but refering to Israel as God chosen/elect people.

There! I've done it. It's probably all full of holes, but that is where I am right now. Tell me what you think and let's see it there any good stuff there.

Ben

[Mark]

I have a question regarding the thousand years that Christ will reign on the Earth. After the thousand years, the Bible says that Satan will be loosed again.

Revelation 20
1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Now, this is a bit confusing. This is when Christ comes back for the Bride? During the thousand years, is it those who were not raptured that will be living on the earth? Is this after the tribulation period? And when Satan is loosed, what happens? I don't understand this part very well. It sounds like 2 separate events.

[truthbetold]

I;m pan trib

[sheep wrecked]

(06-28-2010 08:54 PM)truthbetold Wrote:  I;m pan trib

me too

[Pandemic Rue]

(12-15-2009 01:50 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  Jesus doesn't take the believers anywhere. As I have shown you several times, we rise in the air and are changed in the twinkling of an eye and are with the Lord forever. He sets up His Kingdom here. The thousand year reign is allegorical, not literal - no one knows what it means. We can make some guesses based on human wisdom, but it is God's plan and He's not sharing it with anyone - HALLELUJAH!

oo oo oo. question!! Can someone please provide scripture concerning this is at least not a literal 1000 years here on earth?

[Vic]

(08-11-2011 11:41 PM)Pandemic Rue Wrote:  

(12-15-2009 01:50 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  Jesus doesn't take the believers anywhere. As I have shown you several times, we rise in the air and are changed in the twinkling of an eye and are with the Lord forever. He sets up His Kingdom here. The thousand year reign is allegorical, not literal - no one knows what it means. We can make some guesses based on human wisdom, but it is God's plan and He's not sharing it with anyone - HALLELUJAH!

oo oo oo. question!! Can someone please provide scripture concerning this is at least not a literal 1000 years here on earth?

Back at ya! Not sure who is around right now that gets into this discussion. So maybe the issue could be put back on you to provide the Scripture that proves without a doubt that the 1000 years is a literal 1000 years here on earth.

Keeping in mind all Scriptures which speak of Christ's return; what happens to the current earth; etc. I would suggest reading through this whole section because this stuff is cross talked in the other threads.

[Pandemic Rue]

(08-12-2011 12:30 PM)Vic Wrote:  Back at ya! Not sure who is around right now that gets into this discussion....

Yeah, i noticed it was an old thread...

(08-12-2011 12:30 PM)Vic Wrote:  ... So maybe the issue could be put back on you to provide the Scripture that proves without a doubt that the 1000 years is a literal 1000 years here on earth.

Keeping in mind all Scriptures which speak of Christ's return; what happens to the current earth; etc. I would suggest reading through this whole section because this stuff is cross talked in the other threads. [/b][/color]

I did read your post about this Category - good to keep in mind.

Rev 20, just after Christ came from Heaven with his armies to make war with the kings of the earth mentioned in Chapter 19.

KJV -
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up , and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled : and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison


So, I'm wondering if it's not just enough to take what this says literally. I mean if we look at the greek words for thousand and year:

Thousand
Strong's Number: 5507
Transliterated Word
Chilioi
Phonetic Spelling
khil'-ee-oy
Definition
1. a thousand
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/...ilioi.html


Year(s)
Strong's Number: 2094
Transliterated Word
Etos
Phonetic Spelling
et'-os
Definition
1. year
http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/.../etos.html

It looks like a 1000 year period of time, it sounds like 1000 year period of time.

is this a too simplistic?

[Truthworthfinding-Morne]

Six days will you labor and the seventh will you rest. 4000 years "presumably" from Adam/Noah (not to sure about where it starts) to Jesus and 2000 till "round about now", then 1000 years Millennium "entering into His rest". It makes sense if it were to be literal.