What Can We Learn From The Jim Jones Cult?

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(08-02-2009 04:56 AM)Strefanash Wrote:  If my fruit is carnal, and they are, then my real thinking, as opposed to the mere intellectual verbiage where my theology is, is carnal also.

I am carnal minded. I depend on God to lead me to repent of the carnality that lurks, but of course I argue with him and have resisted him tooth and nail at every point. And such dependance as I have only came as he took the initiative 31 years ago and continues to do so

I do not separate out my mind and say "ah that is only the carnal mind" ignore it" I was taught this and it nearly destroyed me. MY unbelieving thought and opinions, the ones that bubble up as if from nowhere are me and show i am carnal minded, for as a man thinks in his heart SO HE IS.

And neither do I claim it is a demon. That is a "devil made me do it" cop out. So all that filth is me. No one else. I know mytself by my fruit and it is carnal and i am carnal minded. So is everyone else that I can see. The best I can see are commonly decent people no better than the very best atheists (and I knew an atheist who was, in behaviour, a model of kindness and generosity). But that is no recommendation concerning us

IF a person walking in the spirit and fully dependant on God is not carnal minded then I have never met one in all these years. Therefore being a reborn christian is not the same thing a walking in the spirit. If it were Paul would bnot have needed to wrrite letters to the churches which were all beset with carnalities of their own

Stref,

>I am carnal minded. I depend on God to lead me to repent of the carnality that lurks, but of course I argue with him and have resisted him tooth and nail at every point.>

Being carnal minded means you cannot ever please God, and that means, you will die in your sin.

Romans 8:5-14 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The thing is Stref, God will not always strive with you. He is not going to always allow you to spit back at Him, reject Him, reject the Truth of His love, reject the Truth of the Scriptures. You have made an idol of being carnal. Making others to blame for your choices of rejecting God. They treated you badly. They didn't understand you. They didn't live for Christ the way you thought they should. They made you reject God's love. They made you go after a familiar spirit--which you did grab onto while in the charismatic teachings which you say you reject...but you don't. It's about your relationship with Jesus Christ or lack of one Stref. No one else.

Your writings give the appearance you idolise your own self, your intelligence, your rejection of God, all the while viewing others through your lense of unbelief. Believing no one can love God, no one can Live for Christ, no one can be walking in the Spirit...because you can't, won't, don't and you refuse to live for Christ.

Titus 1:15-16 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16. They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

To you, because you wallow in unbelief and hatred of God--yes Stref, hatred because if you refuse to love God nor accept His love, you have the opposite feeling for Him, when you fight Him. You've been at it too long to not have decided to not love Him. You admit it in almost every post you make.

The thing is Stref, God will not always strive with you.

Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Romans 9:18-22 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? 21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

>>>I know mytself by my fruit and it is carnal and i am carnal minded. So is everyone else that I can see. >>>

Knowing your fruit is carnal means you understand that you bear bad fruit. And bad fruit leads to destruction. You can't really belong to Christ and bring forth bad fruit.

Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Matthew 12:32-35 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. 33. Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. 34. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. 35. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.

Matthew 13:3-9 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; 4. And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: 5. Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: 6. And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. 7. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: 8. But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. 9. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Luke 6:43-49 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 44. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. 45. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. 46. And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 47. Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 48. He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 49. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

It's a choice Stref that you have determined to make for over 30 years. To live for yourself and fight God. That's a choice Stref that you almost appear proud of.

People aren't all like you Stref. I realise that overturns your perceptions and judgements of others. Others do love God, others do live for Christ. Others do accept God's love. Others do walk in the Spirit which is pleasing to God -- because they know Jesus Christ and have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Others know that it isn't because of their own righteousness or understandings--but because of Christ's righteousness and Him giving the understandings.

<<IF a person walking in the spirit and fully dependant on God is not carnal minded then I have never met one in all these years. Therefore being a reborn christian is not the same thing a walking in the spirit. If it were Paul would bnot have needed to wrrite letters to the churches which were all beset with carnalities of their own >>>

You have met some Stref. You just reject them because you reject the Truth of Christ and the Love of God. Therefore you cannot accept what they have as Truth.

You would rather live in and wallow in defeat and be headed for destruction than say , Yes Lord. You'd rather in your stubborn arrogance fight God tooth and nail, and say you did that (which you do in almost every post), than say you went on bended knee before God, and asked His forgiveness for all the things you know stand between Him and you. You would rather resist the Truth, than give into God's love, and know the peace, joy and rest that comes from knowing Christ. Because it can be known Stref, and is known and experienced by many who walk with Him daily. You'd rather think you are unique by fighting God. Well you are not. The wide road is filled with people who shake their fists at God.

You want to shake your fist at God and argue and resist Him and think you are doing a good thing. The Scriptures say otherwise.

Hebrews 3:7-19 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8. Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years. 10. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. 11. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) 12. Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. 13. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; 15. While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation. 16. For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. 17. But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? 18. And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? 19. So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Luke 8:15-18 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience. 16. No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light. 17. For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad. 18. Take heed therefore how ye hear: for whosoever hath, to him shall be given; and whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he seemeth to have.

And Stref, I wouldn't bother responding to you at all and telling you these things, if I didn't care about you.

Gal 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?