Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?

[Vic]

Open Discussion. What do you think?

[Vic]

Many are claiming Christmas is pagan and we should celebrate Hanukkah ( or Chanukah) instead, and it's biblical to do so.

Haven't read much about it? Here's a start :

The Legend of Hanukkah > http://www.seekgod.ca/legend.htm
or

Did Jesus Celebrate Hanukkah > http://fortheloveoftruth.wordpress.com/2...chanukkah/

[Emjesown]

Hello

I have been reading about chanuka today, the links i found here and i googled it, so much to read and so litle time (smile) :s
My conclusion for now and in short:

Giving presents, made up games( dreidel, feast of the lights, 9 arm menorah(pan god related and wicca's)
is therefor the same as christmas what they (who celebrate chanuka) reject as being pagan.
Rabbi's added alot imo
RKK added alot
Is there ONE church who is pure i wonder.
Since adam and eve people look for (a) god.......to worship or to explain nature or creation.
So they realise there has to be a God/god, and that's good.
But the way they give it form and all the rituals and mixing stuff ain. t!
Up to now its a mess and i don t know what to believe anymore, the more answers i find, :reading:the more Q's i have:@

Oh boy where do i start and where will it end?

EMJE

[sheep wrecked]

(12-21-2008 10:05 AM)Emjesown Wrote:  Hello

I have been reading about chanuka today, the links i found here and i googled it, so much to read and so litle time (smile) :s
My conclusion for now and in short:

Giving presents, made up games( dreidel, feast of the lights, 9 arm menorah(pan god related and wicca's)
is therefor the same as christmas what they (who celebrate chanuka) reject as being pagan.
Rabbi's added alot imo
RKK added alot
Is there ONE church who is pure i wonder.
Since adam and eve people look for (a) god.......to worship or to explain nature or creation.
So they realise there has to be a God/god, and that's good.
But the way they give it form and all the rituals and mixing stuff ain. t!
Up to now its a mess and i don t know what to believe anymore, the more answers i find, :reading:the more Q's i have:@

Oh boy where do i start and where will it end?

EMJE

I think Solomon said it best: There is nothing new under the sun

Man will always find ways to "celebrate" God by their man-made traditions. I find it interesting that Messianics oppose "Christian" celebrations and then celebrate feasts that have long been fulfilled in Christ. It only proves to me that it is not enough to love God and serve Him by our witness and testimony of His saving grace through Jesus Christ. Instead, man finds ways to prove and hopefully improve their relationship with Him through festivities and "things".

Like you, after coming out of Hebrew Roots, I had to re-examine all that I believed, including going back to my Christian roots to see where to put closure and how to proceed forward. For myself, I see no productivity in the holidays or feasts. But I would be the last person to criticize those who chose to celebrate, as I see many who truly love the Lord and want to thank Him by celebrating Christ's birth and resurrection.

My biggest issue is the mixing of traditions in with the celebrations, and like you, I question the validity of it. I am torn, knowing the history and often wonder if too much emphasis is on the celebrations of traditions, rather than on Jesus. On the other hand, I see that God uses both Christmas and Easter to proclaim the Gospel. And He definitely uses Christmas for the purpose of yearly financial support for missions and organizations that serve the poor, needy, and lost. It is a conundrum. Every year I search my heart and what goes on around me for the purpose and the intent, finding very little to reassure me. So, for now, I stand on the outside viewing with more sadness than joy, yet do what is required of me [families that enjoy it] and remember that in Christ is simplicity.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe me, the hour comes, when you shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 You worship you know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him.

[carl37]

This is probably the best way to discern about Christmas anyway. Suppose you are driving down the street and you pass your pastor or a known pastor's house and it is decorated with lights and you can see the decorated christmas tree in the window. You drive down the street further and you see the house of someone you know doesn't go to church and has on several occasions had law enforcement at his house for alcohol related incidents. The house is decorated with lights and you can see the decorated christmas tree in the window. Or you can just pass by a house that you know the people living there don't go to church or believe in "God" or even drink for that matter. The lights are strung up and there again is the decorated tree in the window. Where is the difference? Believers are to be set-apart. One can say "Well I celebrate "Christ's" birth that day and that's not what it means to me. I don't think that is what Yahweh had in mind. Isn't it strange that most of the christian denominations in America are only to eager to celebrate christmas, easter and the like. Where are the observances of the feasts and ordinances the great I AM ordained and decreed to be observed forever in Leviticus? I hope I have offended no one. That is not my intention. My intention is to remind people that Yeshua observed the feasts. He didn't do away with them with the new testament. He didn't teach from the new testament. It wasn't nailed to the cross. Yeshua was trying to return the people to the ordinances, statutes, laws and instruction given after the Exodus from Egypt.

[sheep wrecked]

(12-23-2008 11:41 PM)carl37 Wrote:  This is probably the best way to discern about Christmas anyway. Suppose you are driving down the street and you pass your pastor or a known pastor's house and it is decorated with lights and you can see the decorated christmas tree in the window. You drive down the street further and you see the house of someone you know doesn't go to church and has on several occasions had law enforcement at his house for alcohol related incidents. The house is decorated with lights and you can see the decorated christmas tree in the window. Or you can just pass by a house that you know the people living there don't go to church or believe in "God" or even drink for that matter. The lights are strung up and there again is the decorated tree in the window. Where is the difference? Believers are to be set-apart. One can say "Well I celebrate "Christ's" birth that day and that's not what it means to me. I don't think that is what Yahweh had in mind. Isn't it strange that most of the christian denominations in America are only to eager to celebrate christmas, easter and the like. Where are the observances of the feasts and ordinances the great I AM ordained and decreed to be observed forever in Leviticus? I hope I have offended no one. That is not my intention. My intention is to remind people that Yeshua observed the feasts. He didn't do away with them with the new testament. He didn't teach from the new testament. It wasn't nailed to the cross. Yeshua was trying to return the people to the ordinances, statutes, laws and instruction given after the Exodus from Egypt.

Hi Carl

Let me ask you a question. I like to think of Torah as a road map to Christ. Once we arrive at the Destination [Him] - why would you want to re-travel the road over and over again?

We read in the NT that He established a New Covenant in His blood, not the covenant that was shed in the blood of animals. I find it interesting that God said the old covenant would be replaced with a New Covenant not like the one He gave to them at Mt Siani, which they broke.

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, said the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they broke, although I was an husband to them, said the LORD:


I often wonder if the extreme sacrifice that Jesus gave - giving His life, so we could have life eternal, be reconciled to God, and have all of our sins washed away - that it is counted for such a small thing to keep feasts that He already completely fulfilled, to the full satisfaction of God. It saddens me that Messianics seem to miss the full impact of Christ's sacrifice, His Words: "It is Finished", the temple veil torn in half, an earthquake, and three hours of darkness to "seal the deal". I am mystified really at why people would to reestablish something that has vanished away? Perhaps they don't realize that the old covenant was conditional on Israel's obedience and when they failed, the old covenant was taken from them. Now, all that is required is to believe on Jesus Christ for salvation - the beauty of simplicity in Him, and the New Covenant :cloud9:

btw - if you would like to discuss the Name issue - we can start a thread on that. It might be interesting to explore that as we have some good information to share on that as well. Perhaps some would be surprised to know that "Yahweh" is an incorrect rendering of the YWHW and not possible in the Hebrew language

[strefanash]

(12-15-2008 10:23 PM)Vic Wrote:  Many are claiming Christmas is pagan and we should celebrate Hanukkah ( or Chanukah) instead, and it's biblical to do so.

END QUOTE

Strefanash

As St Paul said "let no man be your judge as regards festivals" I hold that in christ we have the freedom to celebrate or not celebrate any festival in the church calendar we choose to.

I do not ignore christmas because it is pagan. I ignore it because i simply cannot be bothered running around like a lunatic simply to prepare for one day.

Some celebrate some days, some celebrate none at all. Let them be free to do so, or not, as long as no legalistic stricture is placed by anybody on anyone else.

For myself I have almost no idea what Hannukah is, and, to be honest, other than the mildest academic curiosity as to what it actually is, no interest.

I have that freedom in christ

---

(12-23-2008 11:41 PM)carl37 Wrote:  . That is not my intention. My intention is to remind people that Yeshua observed the feasts. He didn't do away with them with the new testament. He didn't teach from the new testament. It wasn't nailed to the cross. Yeshua was trying to return the people to the ordinances, statutes, laws and instruction given after the Exodus from Egypt.

Strefanash

MY immediate previous post quotes St Paul on this one. I will give one of the the references. It is KJV not because I have any particular partiality to the KJV, only because that is the only version my electronic concordance works in

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day,or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: (2:17)which are a shadow of things to come.

What's wrong with a christmas tree if we are that way inclined?

[carl37]

Strefanash,

Thank you for your reply. It is good to have discussion. If someone wants to have a Christmas tree then they can. Unless someone forcibly removes it from their house we still have some freedom here in America. I myself am reminded of Jeremiah 10: 1-4. If that isn't a description of a Christmas tree it's pretty close. I am reminded as a child I watched my father bring the tree in and then nail 2 two by fours on the bottom so it would stand up. Of course we have different colored lights and tinsel and such now. There is no biblical history of it being ordained by the almighty to have a tree. The point I was making was if ordinary people are celebrating christmas and have all the lights and trees and such and "Christians" do the same, Then how are they different? People can say they are observing it for a different meaning, however having the tree, lights, decorations, and presents like the ordinary non-believer is in reality no different. We as humans like to justify our actions, emotions, traditions and such. The almighty has laid out his rules and regulations to have a successful life, by adding to it kinda says that he didn't think of everything. As for Colossians 2 that is an excellent passage. If the whole passage is read in context it really makes an argument in my favor. "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ" If Christmas isn't a tradition of man then where did it come from? Also in verse 16 "Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink or in respect of an holy day or of the new moon or of the sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ." It is my understanding that the "is" being in italics means that it was added to the scripture. Take that out and it reads "but the body of Christ" meaning the body of Christ is to be the judge. Isn't it possible that Paul was telling the church, "do not let "Christians" who are misinterpreting the scriptures, tell you that you don't have to observe the feast days or it's ok to eat whatever you want or you don't have to observe the Sabbath." Again this is just my point of view. The almighty will sort the wheat from the chaff when he returns.

[Emjesown]

Also in verse 16 "Let no man judge you in meat, or in drink or in respect of an holy day or of the new moon or of the sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ."


This also can mean the oposite
that we should not judge people who do it differently.
Like not keeping the feasts by conviction :
because they where a shadow, but the body is Christ!!!!

EMJE

[strefanash]

Carl

The almighty has laid out his rules and regulations to have a successful life, by adding to it kinda says that he didn't think of everything. A

Strefanash:

I am sorry sir, but i must completely disagree. The rules were not given to show us how to have a successful life. They were given to show us that were in fact dead. St Paul makes it clear in galatians and Romans that the LAw (ie the rules) are a ministry of condemnation, and that trying to keep them only stirs up sin and makes it worse.

My bitter and agonized experience over 30 years is precisely this.

The verse I quoted about let no one be your judge was not the one i meant to find, but i could not find the other one. I do not read the KJV and the other translations may put it different so my KJV computer concordance can not find it. I recall a passage where Paul said concerning festivals, one man keeps one day, one keeps another, and a third keeps none at all. and that is was ok as long as every man was satisfied in his own mind. CAn anyone find this verse or tell me which one it is?

As for the difference between christians and not , it is nothing to do with whether we have christmas trees or not, it is about the generosity, kindness and mercy we should show every day of the year.

Because I have never seen this, it is irrelevant to me what we choose to do come any holiday time, for without these we are in the flesh and in the dark