Search
Member List
Help
|
Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
|
|
12-13-2011, 04:07 AM
Post: #101
|
|||
|
|||
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
(12-12-2011 10:19 PM)Lois Wrote: I don't personally go out of my way to celebrate Christmas but I don't hold anything against someone that does.Most people have to observe it whether they want to or not.Most people have to take that day off from work whether they want to or not.Most businesses are closed on the day of Christmas.So really pretty much everyone is made to observe it somehow, someway whether they wanted to or not, sometimes even accidentally. So does that mean we are all going to suffer the wrath of God?I think not...not those of us that are in Christ Jesus. Lois That's all I really want to do , is make people Think. I truly with all my heart,soul and spirit Love and worship YHWH the One and only God of Heaven and Earth And Our one and only Messiah, Yeshua. The problem is , there is just so much garbage out there based on old garbage that develops into new garbage. Let me share some of the massive research I've done on Christmas. And please this is just historical information and We as believers need to really be Sure in what we have faith in. And this is one of the many reasons I truly believe we need to seriously stop with the Xmas "spirit" season. And believe me, I have a ton more information. I in no way want Vic or anyone else to think I believe this JUNK !! But for the Love of our SAVIOR !!! We need to know what's really up. We often hear about how many of the traditions, rites and symbols of modern day "Christian" holidays have their roots in paganism. Have you ever wondered why December 25th was chosen to celebrate the birth of Jesus? Could it only be a consequence that ancient paganism and the story of Mithras' birth coincides with the Yule/Christmas season? If the accounts in the Bible are correct, the time of Jesus birth would have been closer to mid-summer, for this is when shepherds would have been "tending their flocks in the field " and the new lambs were born. Strange enough, the ancient pagan religion, Mithraism, which dates back over 4,000 years, also celebrated the birth of their "saviour" on December 25th. Franz Cumont, who is consider by many to be the leading research authority on Roman Paganism, explained the ancient religion called Mithraism. Now.. look at this>> Hundreds of years before Jesus, according to the Mithraic religion, three Wise Men of Persia came to visit the baby savior-god Mithra, bring him gifts of gold, myrrh and frankincense. Mithra was born on December 25 as told in the “Great Religions of the World”, page 330; “…it was the winter solstice celebrated by ancients as the birthday of Mithraism’s sun god”. And here are a few more "other gods" that share the same unholy Date of Dec. 25th ATTIS - Phrygia: Born of the virgin Nana on December 25. He was both the Father and the Divine Son. BUDDIAH – INDIA: Born of the Virgin Maya on December 25th. He was announced by a star and attended by wise men presenting costly gifts. At birth angles sing heavenly songs. DIONYSUS - GREECE: Born of a Virgin on December 25th, placed in a manger. He was a traveling teacher who performed many miracles. OSIRIS – EGYPT: He came to fulfill the law. Called "KRST," the "Anointed One." Born of the virgin Isis-Meri on December 25th in a cave / manger, with his birth announced by a star and attended by three wise men. Now, can you see the deal Here? When we accept this terrible unholiday of the 25th of Dec, look at what we attach Our Great and Awesome Saviour too!!! Can we really think HE, Yeshua the Real Messiah can in any way be happy about all this? |
|||
|
|
12-13-2011, 09:29 PM
Post: #102
|
|||
|
|||
|
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
Mark, I have found Cumons book online Mysteries of Mithra and I'm reading through it.So far I am halfway through the book and here is no mention of anything of the sort that you mentioned.Christians aren't even mentioned so far..
Have you actually read his book? If so can you reference where the above claims can be found? Thank you! |
|||
|
|
|
12-14-2011, 07:27 AM
Post: #103
|
|||
|
|||
|
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
http://www.comereason.org/cmp_rlgn/cmp070.asp
discusses the cult of Mithraism and Christianity. I'm sorry Mark but I don't think you have done extensive stud on this subject at all. Phillipians 4:23 "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." |
|||
|
|
|
12-16-2011, 12:10 PM
Post: #104
|
|||
|
|||
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
(12-13-2011 04:07 AM)Mark_R Wrote: [Lois Mark, before I address all this I want to point to the issue again of Copyright LAW. PLEASE< if you quote something you need to show source. And No you should not be quoting something you cannot show source for if a link is required by that particular source. PLEASE abide the law of the land and respect other sources and their research by quoting accurately and showing the required copyright information for that source. Thank you. [/color] Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
|||
|
|
12-16-2011, 12:24 PM
Post: #105
|
|||
|
|||
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
(12-14-2011 07:27 AM)Mary Wrote: http://www.comereason.org/cmp_rlgn/cmp070.asp Thanks for pointing that out Mary. I actually was going to do a full article on the issue of Mithraism which has nothing to do with Christ. It started a long time ago and any attempted parallels actually had to do with Prophecy from the OT concerning the awaited Messiah, long before Christ fulfilled those prophecies. Is it any wonder satan wanted to try to muddle and confuse those who are superstitious or who don't know the Truth of the Scriptures concerning Christ? Here's a few other links regarding the whole Mithra and Christ nonsense: http://carm.org/christianity/bible/doesn...nity-false http://withalliamgod.wordpress.com/2011/...istianity/ http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text...0169a.html Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
|||
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 01:41 PM
Post: #106
|
|||
|
|||
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
(12-13-2011 04:07 AM)Mark_R Wrote: Lois Mark, this is a research and apologetics website and forum. I think people are pretty used to thinking, researching, discerning and applying the Scriptures. I think you underestimate that concept because you are being disagreed with, you think it must mean no one has done their homework. That would be incorrect. Your issue Mark appears to be partly that you are superstitious concerning the date of December 25th. Why? Because you believe that because pagans have celebrated something on that day, or near that day, that the day belongs to them. So December 25th is a" terrible and unholy day" because some pagans have done something on that day many years ago...and some may practice pagan rituals even now on that date. That some reflect old testament prophecy should hardly be a surprise. For believers, each and every day is acknowledged and known as belonging to the Lord and believers view what they do in that or any day for the glory and honor of God. Pagans do what they do. It has nothing to do with Christ, except for those who acknowledge those pagan things as needing respect, validity, or elevation above what we do for Jesus Christ. And I want to make something clear. There are some things that are very clearly pagan or of the occult that we cannot make of or claim for Christ. I have written about some of those things. However, let's focus on this. God made all days---every single one of them, Mark, including December 25th. He called all that He had made, incuding every single day, 'good.' What man has chosen in denial of Him does not negate that Truth Mark. Every believer can esteem or make one day more special than another or not. That's Scriptural Truth and it has been brought to your attention. If you believe the Scriptures what does this Scripture mean to you? Because if you do not acknowledge it, it means you deny the Scriptures. Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. And this one: Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. I defined what worship, godly fear and reverence were according to the Scriptures, in post 91 and you made no comment. I asked you very specifically which part of the above list of hymns in post 95 was "pagan Idolatry and false worship", as you have declared it all to be. You did not answer. I pointed out how God told Israel to take a pagan deity, a lamb, and sacrifice it right in the middle of Egypt--and the Egyptians knew what they were being told to do to what was to them, one of their gods. Israel obeyed and showed there was no other but Almighty God and they were not going to worship or acknowledge those false gods. Jesus walked amongst the Romans and Greeks whose idols and false god worship was everywhere. But he did not fear them, He did not fight with them, He merely went about His Father's business and declared who He is to all who would listen. Many Gentiles did listen, aside from those of Israel. Jesus watched the Jews celebrate Hannukah [also called the Feast of Lights or Feast of Fire], in John 10, which if you recall was not ordained by God, and celebrated from the middle of December--winter...same time roughly as Christmas. Did Jesus condemn them all or did He declare who He was, the Good Shepherd, eternal life, laying down His life the sheep, and His ability to lay it down and take it up again, He and the Father are one etc. He also proclaimed Himself to be THe Light of the World. While some believed Him, He was threatened with being stoned because as they said, He "makest thyself God." Jesus escaped as His time had not yet come. Yet, He did not stop declaring the Truth because the Jews were celebrating the Jewish people, venerating the Maccabee's and one as the awaited Messiah, instead of God and recognising Christ. Paul went to Mars Hill, and in amongst all their false gods, pointed to their altar to the Unknown God, and declared Almighty God, and the Truth of Jesus Christ, after telling them they were way too superstitious. Now let's apply the Truth of Jesus Christ being declared in amongst all that paganism, their practices and those false gods. Does that make Jesus a pagan god or equated with a pagan god? Does that make those declaring Him pagan? Does the fact that the demonic tried to duplicate what was Truth in Christ with falsehood abd false gods, negate the Truth of the Birth of Jesus Christ? Did God, Jesus, Paul or the other apostles compromise truth by declaring Truth in amongst pagan worship of false gods? If someone is declaring Christ, and utilises things of the world to do so....are they pagans? We are strangers and pilgrims, in the world but not of the world, Mark. If the world is not to be used, then why are you using a computer and the internet and likely email? How many have told you the internet is evil? We are to light in a dark world... For example, if I have a light on in my house, or have a colored light or lights---have I committed a pagan act? Are lights evil? colored lights evil? If you have them on your patio around your BBQ as many are prone to do---does that make you guilty of partaking of a pagan practice? If I have a fireplace and burn a really big log at Christmas, am I guilty of practicing a pagan practice? How about at other times of year? How about on any day, because we know that pagans do things on other days of the year? If someone belongs to Jesus Christ, and their heart is set on Him, declaring Him and celebrating Him is done, regardless of what pagans falsely worship or do. It's those who think that what pagans do should dictate what Christians do that becomes the problem. We are called to rejoice and declare Christ. What we have to offer the world in amongst all the false beliefs, is Jesus Christ and TRUTH. And that Truth can start with Matthew 1 and the birth of Christ or focus on the teachings of Christ before He was crucified, died and rose again for all our sins, which is all part of the Gospel. You are free to hide yourself away and not declare Him because some pagans might be doing something on that or every day, or not make any day special. We also have been given God's go ahead to esteem one day above others. Each is to be convinced in their own mind and not condemn the other for esteeming a day or not esteeming a day. It doesn't say esteem or not esteem a day but make sure you keep the feasts which were a shadow of things to come. The feasts were part of the Sinai covenant and fulfilled in Christ. You condemn Christians for declaring Christ and commemorating the Scriptural Truths of prophecy and fulfilled prophecy of His birth, yet you and many many others like to play the guessing game as to when Christ was conceived, was born and when all these events took place. And there are many such guesses amongst HR, all the while screaming no one should be declaring Christ in December. The celebration was a time of convenience and quite frankly the declaraton and proclamation of His birth took place long before any Christmas events were tabulated. And those who proclaimed Christ at those times wouldn't be surprised that unbelievers would rally round and attempt to displace His Truth. It makes no difference. Jesus lives and we are to proclaim Him and since the world recognises Christ in amongst all the junk at that time, it is merely another fulfillment of prophecy. That He would be proclaimed throughout the earth. While some might say, as you have Mark, that Christmas has nothing to do with Christ, there is a huge movement trying to eliminate Jesus Christ and Christmas mention from schools, public celebrations, music stations and stores caving to that opinion and not playing those Christmas hymns which declare clearly who Christ is and the 'child' prophecies fulfilled by Him. People are being told to not wish others "Merry Christmas" because it is offensive and holds religious significance and is viewed as 'Christian." You can try to be politically correct Mark, but in the end, as you said, you don't believe there should be any need to evangelise or make public declaration of Christ either. Except, by squelching those public things, Mark, it also silences and squelches the candle set on the hill. Matthew 5:11-16 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 13. Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. And as Paul said: Romans 10:9-18 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15. And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16. But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. You don't need to partake of Christmas Mark, but you need to stop judging and declaring those who do want to celebrate Christ at this time, to be pagan or entering into pagan practices. It's about Christ to them, and honoring Him, as every day is for true believers, Mark. And if you think it wrong to declare Christ on every day of the year, and rejoice while declaring Scriptural Truths, then you need to consider where you are spiritually. Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
|||
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 03:54 PM
Post: #107
|
|||
|
|||
|
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
Mark said post 97 >>[quote vic >>The effects of the various feasts was that aside from focus on God, it provided, not only spiritual unity, but social interaction. All blessings from God. In fact, the one festival and related tithes was provided for the people to go and spend the tithe on purchasing anything they lusted after or desired, by commandment of God.[De 12:15, 20, 21; 14:26]. That is totally contrary to what Christians are to be about. In the New Testament were are told to NOT lust after or covet anything at all.[/quote]
Mark said >> Quote:That's really stretching these verses Vic. One thing is for certain though, All feast's and celebration's were given by God to HIS people. No matter how you see your Doctrine, Christian or Torah Observant, HR or whatever.. If you Claim the one true God, the God of Israel, then no matter what, You celebrations should be of the ones that HE gave us for HIS purposes, not for our purposes. ON the contray Mark, this is exactly what those Scriptures said, and to deny that is to deny what God Himself said: Deu 12:15 Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart. Deu 12:20 When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after. Deu 12:21 If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after. Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, lusteth after > H185 אוּה 'avvâh BDB Definition: 1) desire, lust, will (not necessarily evil) Part of Speech: noun feminine Strong's lusteth after> H185 אוּה 'avvâh av-vaw' From H183; longing: - desire, lust after, pleasure. strong drink H7941 שׁכר shêkâr BDB Definition: 1) strong drink, intoxicating drink, fermented or intoxicating liquor Part of Speech: noun masculine wine > Strong's H3196 יין yayin yah'-yin From an unused root meaning to effervesce; wine (as fermented); by implication intoxication: - banqueting, wine, wine [-bibber]. Vic said Quote:it's about Christ Scriptural focus on fulfilled prophecy from OT plus the gospel records of Jesus lineage, born of a virgin and the events surrounding His birth and just after, and Mark said Quote:I beg to differ. It may be true that people of the Christian faith adapted Xmas as a time dedicated to the Messiah. But the truth of it is the whole entire Xmas celebration came about and was rooted in Pagan or other god worship. That's not true Mark. The Scriptures concerning Christ are not pagan nor is declaring Him to the world at any time, pagan. Nor is declaring those passages in the New Testament about the virgin Mary, Joseph, the angels, the shepherds, the wisemen....the manger, the birth of Christ, the declaration by God's prophets...those things are ALL true. Did you expect that the demonic would remain silent and try to distort or point to other than Jesus Christ by all those false gods? Did you really think that prior to Christ, the OT prophecies concerning the coming Messiah would not attempt to be 'fulfilled' by those who deny Jesus Christ? Isn't it amazing that long before Christ they were aware of the prophecies and tried to claim them as having been fulfilled by pagan gods? Isn't it amazing you appear to fear them as being influential or mean something to those who know the Truth of the Scriptures? Ephesians 5:5-17 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. 8. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9. (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10. Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. 12. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13. But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16. Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. 2 Timothy 4:2-4 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4. And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. Mark said Quote:And I totally disagree with teaching these holiday's to our children. Why can't we just plain old teach them as we are told to teach them, in the way that they should go, as a set apart people whose only desire is the worship and praise of the one true God. Why do we in anyway shape or form have to keep pagan symbolism and meaning of things that totally have nothing to do with our God?? Mark I was raised in a non-Christian home until I was 14. I saw some of the pagan elements and lies about Santa etc. But I also was exposed, because of Christians making use of that time, to the hymns and Scriptural truths and declaration of Jesus Christ, our Lord and the Savior for all mankind. Whether I understood them or not, I was exposed to them and seeds were being planted. The nativity or skits or whatever I was exposed to, God used. How shall any know of Christ, if we don't hear the Word of God, and it is found in those celebrations, and yes in those terrible Christian churches...and yes I was exposed to various denominations as my parents basically sent us to whatever church was closest that we could walk to so they didn't have to go with us. Except at Christmas or Easter. If Christians wish to celebrate Christ and use the time as outreach in amongst all the falseness that unbelievers wish to disseminate---who are you to condemn them? God doesn't, because He said, each can esteem one day or not--but to be convinced in our own minds. Because for Christians every day is a God given day and a day to rejoice as belonging to Him. It's not wrong to celebrate the Truth of Christ. At Christmas or any other day. And what if you are invited to a "Christmas dinner"? Mark said Quote:That's right God gave the feast's and celebrations. Not man made ones or specifically Ones that have there origins in worship to other things then our God. So Mark, one of the questions on this thread is concerning Hanukkah. Do you celebrate it? As pointed out to you before, Jesus fulfilled all the feasts and they are part of the Sinai covenant to Israel. One cannot keep them according to the God given law--and to not keep them as directed by God is to incur the curses. Quote:And all this decorating and symbolism you are talking about, the tree, the lights, the ornaments on the tree, the yule logs, the santa's in the malls, and on and on and on.... All point to the facts of what this celebration is pointing to. And that has nothing to do with honoring our God or our Savior and King. You are the one focused on those things Mark and keeping pointing to them. I keep pointing you to Christ, the Scriptures, the prophecies and fulfillment in Christ being born of a virgin etc. You seem to want to fixate on the world, where most Christians want to focus on Christ. And that Mark, has everything to do with knowing Jesus Christ, our Savior and Lord. The world recognises Christ at this holiday, despite the attempt to make the worldliness preempt Him. You appear to think that is what should be done. Mark said Quote:I also totally disagree that even the majority of Christians look at this time of year solely for the purpose of the birth of the Messiah. All's you have to do is go to any major mall and see all those "Christians" spending money they don't even have, on gifts that have nothing at all to do with the humble beginnings of our Messiah. So you know not only Christian hearts but their financial statements and affairs as well, Mark? Whether they give to the poor and needy or just fulfill the lust of the flesh? The humble beginnings of Christ....He owns the cattle on a thousand hills yet humbled Himself in the likeness of man ....and the wisemen brought Him gifts...and that example is why some Christians give gifts to others at this time... Mat 2:11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. Did you notice that they worshipped Him, Mark? Yet we are told by Christ Himself to only worship God... Philippians 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8. And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10. That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Is it evil to give gifts to others Mark? Jesus didn't think so. Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? Didn't God allow Israel to get things they desired at particular joyous times, Mark? Quote:They are completely caught up in the "spirit" of xmas. Greed, Greed and more greed. Plus on trying to out do everyone else, and going in to major debt in doing so. Really Mark? And what 'spirit' is that for those who belong to Jesus Christ? Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 8:5-17 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. mark said Quote:Oh sure we make a few minor contributions to charity. Who is this 'we' you are talking about Mark? Do you make a "few minor contributions to charity", Mark at this time, so you don't feel guilty? Are you equating yourself with the Christians you are condemning in that? Do you know how much each gives? Do you know their individual finances or what God has laid on their hearts to give to others, because of how He has blessed them? Mark said Quote:But that's only so we don't feel guilty about all the other sin we are engaging in with the whole holiday "spirit" of it. I have witnessed so many Believers, time and time again, spending all their money on gifts for their "kids", just so they don't have to be made to feel guilty about NOT having bought their kids, the best presents money can buy. And I know you've seen the same thing Vic. Why do we try sooooo hard to justify the xmas season?? We all know how evil and unchristian like it really is. Yet we continue to try to hold on to it. Mark, you are making sweeping statements you cannot know or prove. You don't know all believers hearts or thoughts. No one needs to justify to you what they spend or don't spend or why. That is strictly between them and God. Should debt be part of giving. I don't believe so and I know a lot of Christians who would agree. Are some caught up in overspending ---likely. Who is making anyone feel guilty to buy or not buy at Christmas to give to their children or others Mark? That has to do with lust of the flesh, and as believers that is not what we are to be about----at any time. As far as giving, that is fully between Christ and each believer... and we need to teach our children to give to others, at Christmas and other times. From my Tithing series, the last part: http://www.seekgod.ca/tithing5.htm Keeping the Words of Christ And Giving for the Love of Christ Quote:...If we do anything that is not because of Christ, in obedience to the Word of God, and at the leading of the Holy Spirit----you can have a mansion and it will be as worthless as a filthy outhouse. Are we not to give and do by faith and because of our faith and love of our Savior? And the brethren? Matthew 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 2 Corinthians 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you: Galatians 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do. 1 Timothy 6:17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy; 18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate; 19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life. According to the Apostle Paul, giving was to be As God had prospered a person. ...Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not. 10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith. ...Does giving what one does not already have, support a Scriptural concept of giving? 2 Corinthians 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have. 12 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. 13 For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: ... is having possessions given by God, about understanding where they come from and who really owns ALL of them, and that every single person is to give all that we have, including ourselves, to Him? [Please See Carrying My Cross] 2Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. We're to give willingly, and our giving is not to be tallied or kept track of according to our Lord. Matthew 6:3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: 4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. ....Every part of what we have belongs to Him. We are merely stewards of what is His. The Old Testament people did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. We do. And our giving is to reflect not only that, but the love that comes from Christ, and obedience to His Word, which includes instruction on giving and care of the saints and the poor and needy.... Mark said Quote:The ruler's of this time of year "own" this so called holiday. Always have and always will. And the proof of that is in the way all the symbolism that the church tried to introduce into "their Holiday", has been all but removed for good. Can you disagree with that? If in fact God had instituted this celebration in the first place(which he clearly did not) then the ones that's Isn't if funny Mark, that Jesus Christ has been declared as the promised Messiah since the angels brought tidings of great joy and He has been declared ever since. He is still being declared at Christmas Mark. And that's why you are upset. You want it stopped. In amongst all the worldly aspects--which the world is always going to disseminate, is the Truth of Jesus Christ, declared by those who believe Him. That you don't want Him declared at this time of year, makes your intent suspect. As far as God's holy days Mark, with no Temple and the other reasons given to you many times, you are not celebrating them at all like God commanded, so you in fact have not only incurred the curses warned of and promised by God, but have denied what God declared concerning keeping them. You have denied Him and the Scriptures by doing so. Jesus has fulfilled them and they were a shadow of Him and what He did. The focus is to be on Him. Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
|||
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 05:25 PM
Post: #108
|
|||
|
|||
|
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
I read this verse the other day and thought it would be good to add here.
Gen_21:8 And the child grew, and was weaned: and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. Abraham made a great feast just to celebrate his son being weened.That would seem to be kind of trivial really.Children are weened it is just a natural developmental occurrence but Abraham decided to throw a great banquet for this very common occurrence in a child's life. The birth,life,death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is not such an ordinary occurrence and should be celebrated all the more. 
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.(2John 1:9) |
|||
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 05:33 PM
Post: #109
|
|||
|
|||
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
(12-18-2011 05:25 PM)Lois Wrote: I read this verse the other day and thought it would be good to add here. What a great observation! Good thoughts. There's likely many similar events throughout Scripture. God wanted people to rejoice in Him and all He provided. And yes, what could or should be more celebrated than those things pertaining to Christ. Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
|||
|
|
|
12-18-2011, 06:55 PM
Post: #110
|
|||
|
|||
|
RE: Is Hannukah Better Than Christmas?
Wow Lois that is a cool find! I wholeheartedly agree with the comment that you made
Quote:The birth,life,death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is not such an ordinary occurrence and should be celebrated all the more. |
|||
|
|
|
« Next Oldest | Next Newest »
|
User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)