Who is "All" Israel in the New Covenant?

[FrankDH]

Rose of Sushan Wrote:Well the thing is Frank, Nehemiah tends to agree with me on this one.He actually refers to Deut 30 :4 and says its is them there now look..

Neh 1:8 Remember, I beseech you, the word that you commanded your servant Moses, saying, If you transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations:
Neh 1:9 But if you turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though some of you were cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, yet will I gather them from there, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there.
Neh 1:10 Now these are your servants and your people, whom you have redeemed by your great power, and by your strong hand.

Nehemiah is pleading with the Lord [beseech] that this be the fulfillment of the prophecy to Moses. This is not an assertion that the time for fulfillment has arrived.

Lev 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
Lev 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
Lev 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

Nehemiah is making this request in accordance with the steps for repentance laid out in the law.

Neh 1:6 Let thine ear now be attentive, and thine eyes open, that thou mayest hear the prayer of thy servant, which I pray before thee now, day and night, for the children of Israel thy servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel, which we have sinned against thee: both I and my father's house have sinned.
Neh 1:7 We have dealt very corruptly against thee, and have not kept the commandments, nor the statutes, nor the judgments, which thou commandedst thy servant Moses.
Neh 1:8 Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations:

Now look at Deut 30.

Deu 30:4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:

Deut 30 is not addressing a portion of the nation. "of thine" is Israel, the nation. That's who is being addressesed unless you believe Moses was only addressing a portion of the nation. And if that were the case, then the blessing and curse would not apply to the entire nation. There is no partial fetching promised in this verse. If you are Israel, you get fetched. There is no provision for any to remain in the land of their captors.

There will be only one time when this can take place. It has to be a time when a national conversion takes place. And that can only be following the point where God has purged Israel. Partial fulfillment might be had prior to this point. But complete fulfillment requires that all of "of thine" be fetched back into the land.

Daniel prayed in the same manner that Nehemiah prayed.

Dan 9:3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:
Dan 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Dan 9:5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:
Dan 9:6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
Dan 9:7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
Dan 9:8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.
Dan 9:9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
Dan 9:10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.
Dan 9:11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
Dan 9:12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.
Dan 9:13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

Daniel prayed in accordance with the steps of repentance laid out in the law, with a request that this be the time when the Lord would restore Israel. But Daniel was told there would yet be 70 prophetic weeks determined against Israel. The prophets of God were always praying for the time when Israel would receive entrance into the land as an eternal possession. You are settling for any period where Israel enters the land as having satisified the promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It will not be fulfilled until Israel is in the land to stay. All other instances just foreshadow that time.

Rose of Sushan Wrote:It was because of justice that Jesus died for our sins.God is just and fair and sin cannot go unpunished. However, like the prophet Isaiah says

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

I am having a hard time comprehending what you mean there in that quote.Do you mean to say that God isnt fair or just when there are many scriptures that say that he is. You seem to think that God blinded Israel on purpose, thus excusing any jew on earth now from believing in Jesus..because you say its Gods fault since he unfairly blinded them anyway.

I can agree with you that God is just. Many verses say this. None say He is fair. Justice and fairness are not synonyms. Fairness means everyone receives the same outcome [like you attempt when law is nailed to the cross]. Justice is judging each according to his deeds. It's not one size fits all as you see freedom from law.
And I don't fault God for blinding Israel. I don't see it as a fault. You hear that because you think God has to be fair. I'm open to any verse that says that. It isn't written anywhere. If God has to be fair, you should have no problem answering the question I posed to you. Was it fair that Jesus had to die for your sins and mine? Fairness would demand that Jesus not be killed for the sins of others.

Rose of Sushan Wrote:Where on earth do we see this in NT? Did Paul stop going into the synagogues and preaching because the jews were supposedly blinded and supposedly lost causes til the end of the supposed time of the gentiles? Give me a break. We see Paul preaching in synagogues,James writing to the 12 tribes in the Diaspora and Jesus saying he came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel.If all Israel is truly blinded til the time of the end why on earth did Jesus and the Apostles bother? Can you tell me Frank?

Rom 11 is the NT and I have used it as an explanation of my beliefs. If you study Rom 11 you will find that Israel has been divided into two groups. One group, the election according to grace, are those God reserved to Himself as a remnant [Rom 11:5]. The rest of Israel was blinded [Rom 11:7]. Just as God reserved a remnant for Himself, in the days of Elijah, He has done it in each generation. Today, there is a portion of Israel that can be reached by the gospel [election according to grace] and a portion who will remain an enemy of the gospel [the blind portion that will not see until the fulness of the gentiles comes in].

Neither you, nor I nor Paul knows who God has placed in either of these groups. But the election according to grace can be reached with the gospel. So yes, Paul did, as we should, continue to attempt a witness to Israel.

It is the election according to grace that Jesus meant when He said He came for the lost sheep of Israel. He informed those who were given to know and spoke in parables to those who were not given to know. And Jesus declared to His Father that He never lost a one that was sent to Him, save Judas, so we know He got who He came for. The alterernative is He failed to collect the lost sheep of Israel. He did not fail.