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Did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean People & Food?
12-15-2008, 10:40 PM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2009 01:46 PM by Vic.)
Post: #1
Did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean People & Food?
Act 10:9-17
(9) On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
(10) And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
(11) And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
(12) Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.
(13) And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.
(14) But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
(15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
(16) This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
(17) Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

Some suggest that it fully referred to Gentiles as being able to be clean. Others suggest a two-fold meaning. That being, Gentiles would no longer be unclean once they believed Christ. And that all animals were made clean because God meant that as well, having said it three times.

Vic
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3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-17-2008, 03:04 PM
Post: #2
RE: What did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean?
The vision contains unclean animals which God admits were unclean but he has now cleansed.
Peter is told to kill and eat.
Peter complains that its unclean, not fit to eat.
Then God acknowledges Peters complaint that the animals are unclean and hes never eaten them before because He says in response "What I have cleansed do not call common or unclean."

Does God mislead Peter intentionally, showing him food when he didn’t really mean food? Why didn’t God reply to Peter, "no Peter, you misunderstand, I didn’t mean food silly, its symbolic!" or something along those lines.

No, God didn’t do that. God repeated 3 times that what He had cleansed, Peter was not to call common or unclean.

So if God is saying He has cleansed it, it must mean that they were unclean prior to God cleansing them.


We see no mention of gentiles at this point only food.
A sheet full of animals which are unclean and Peter horrified because he is being told to kill and eat them. God then tells him that food is no longer unclean because he cleansed it.

We then see that shortly after, gentiles come looking for him. Peter is then told by the Spirit to go with them, doubting nothing. [/b]




Act 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek you.
Act 10:20 Arise therefore, and get down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.


If the vision was so obviously meaning gentiles, like some claim, why did Peter need prompting by the Spirit to go with these men?

Some say that the issue wasn’t about food but gentiles. However, if this is so then why in the next chapter do we see that what Peter did caused quite an uproar. He wasn’t just associating with gentiles he was eating with them.

Act 11:2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
Act 11:3 Saying, You went in to men uncircumcised, and did eat with them.


Notice, Peter didn’t say to them " don’t worry I never ate with them " nor does he try to reassure them about not eating with them in any way but as a defense he launches into the description of the vision. Its like he is saying, "don’t blame me, listen to this vision I got from God and you will see why I did go in and eat with them."
The reason why God needed to give Peter the vision with the food and the assurance that now all foods were ritually clean is that if not Peter would have found himself in a dilemma. Since he would have been able to go with Cornelius and not eat with him. So first God gives him the vision, then sends the men.
Peters vision is a great big milestone in history of that there is no doubt. The distinction between clean and unclean is no more We see here in Acts how in the
new Covenant these distinctions are removed.



Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob forever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
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12-28-2008, 08:37 PM
Post: #3
RE: What did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean?
I have heard it taught in Hebrew Roots circles that the sheet was a tallit. So my question is: Why would God allow unclean animals in a tallit, which is considered a holy garment?

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As a side note - there were no tallits in the first century - it was a late middle ages Rabbinical addition.
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12-28-2008, 09:14 PM
Post: #4
RE: What did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean?
Now that is a sharp question!
If it was a tallit He for sure decleared all those animals clean of kosjer.
Seem logical eh?
So mabey HRM has it right but don t see the full consequences of that statement?

Then again, if it was'nt n tallit.......
Unclean animals as a token to declear gentiles "clean'" is also somewhat strange.
I never understood that.
But to be honest
I am not sure about those animals being kosjer.
Even when i take the story of the handwashing with it.
2 events that could declear all food clean.
If jesus ment that and if God ment that.....well then we can eat everything.

EMJE
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12-28-2008, 09:39 PM
Post: #5
RE: What did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean?
(12-28-2008 09:14 PM)Emjesown Wrote:  Now that is a sharp question!
If it was a tallit He for sure decleared all those animals clean of kosjer.
Seem logical eh?
So mabey HRM has it right but don t see the full consequences of that statement?

Then again, if it was'nt n tallit.......
Unclean animals as a token to declear gentiles "clean'" is also somewhat strange.
I never understood that.
But to be honest
I am not sure about those animals being kosjer.
Even when i take the story of the handwashing with it.
2 events that could declear all food clean.
If jesus ment that and if God ment that.....well then we can eat everything.

EMJE

Emje, what do you think of these verses? Reading

1Ti 4:3-6
(3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
(4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
(5) For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
(6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

Do you think God gave Paul those words? And if He did, do they mean what they seem to mean?

And then what of what Paul wrote to the Romans?


Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Since we're to do those things that edify others, if we make an issue about what someone eats---are we sharing Christ with them? :therethere:

On the other hand, are we going to put something on the table deliberately to offend someone?
Icon_new_shocked

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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12-28-2008, 09:55 PM
Post: #6
RE: What did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean?
(3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
(4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
(5) For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer

I don t wanna be a pain in the you know what but

Some people told me in the past that only animals that are kosjer are called food. Same goes for meat.


EMJE
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12-29-2008, 11:26 AM
Post: #7
RE: What did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean?
Quote:Some people told me in the past that only animals that are kosjer are called food. Same goes for meat.

Yes ,I hear that a lot too in messianic circles.But that was the point of the vision of the sheet.What God acknowledges was unclean,He has cleansed

15) And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

God agrees with Peter that the food had been unclean, yet he now says He cleanses it.

If Jesus came to restore all things wouldn't cleansing all things make sense, and this would include food?
Now some might say that should we now go on to eat all poisonous foods etc since they are clean.
When I say clean I mean ritually clean ,not in safe to eat.
There is a kosher fish ,I forget the name,that is actually very poisonous.
Kosher/clean in biblical context does not mean safe and edible perse it means ritually clean.

Just some thoughts Wave
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01-02-2009, 06:40 PM
Post: #8
RE: What did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean?
Those things that were unclean in the Old Covenant (food, Gentiles, etc.) are now accepted in the New Covenant. This was during the time that Christian Jews were gradually escaping their old ordinance-keeping and swapping it for the Spirit's guidance. Not a bad trade.

Acts 9:5
And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest:
IT IS HARD FOR THEE TO KICK AGAINST THE PRICKS.


Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
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01-02-2009, 11:17 PM
Post: #9
RE: What did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean?
(01-02-2009 06:40 PM)DarkGlass1312 Wrote:  Those things that were unclean in the Old Covenant (food, Gentiles, etc.) are now accepted in the New Covenant. This was during the time that Christian Jews were gradually escaping their old ordinance-keeping and swapping it for the Spirit's guidance. Not a bad trade.

Probably what you need to understand is that those within Hebrew Roots are teaching otherwise. Which is why some of the explanations seem long or include many scriptures. So that what is said is proven with the Scriptures.Reading

What should be simple and according to the Scriptures has become twisted or confusing for some.
Sign0171

Vic
SeekGod.ca

3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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01-04-2009, 03:57 PM (This post was last modified: 01-04-2009 03:59 PM by malawk.)
Post: #10
Mark 7:19 from other thread
Quote:You made me smile Greg. You are comparing apples to oranges. The reason for the change in wording is because of the use of different texts. All the versions mentioned except the KJV utulize, Nestle Aland/Wescott and Hort manuscripts, which indeed change the original texts so that translation is different.

Textus Receptus Greek New Testament with Strong's Numbers

Hoping this posts ok...following are the greek from both the TR and NA

TR ὅτι οὐκ εἰσπορεύεται αὐτοῦ εἰς τὴν καρδίαν ἀλλ᾽ εἰς τὴν κοιλίαν καὶ εἰς τὸν ἀφεδρῶνα ἐκπορεύεται καθαρίζον πάντα τὰ βρώματα

NA ὅτι οὐκ εἰσπορεύεται αὐτοῦ εἰς τὴν καρδίαν ἀλλ’ εἰς τὴν κοιλίαν καὶ εἰς τὸν ἀφεδρῶνα ἐκπορεύεται καθαρίζων πάντα τὰ βρώματα

Both of the above taken from blueletterbible.com

Compare the two and you see there is only one difference in one letter between the two in the verse which doesnt change the meaning , TR as an "o(omikron)" in the 4th to last word katharidzon while NA in the same word same letter has an "ω"omega.

"Thus He/Jesus declared" not in at either of TR or the NA greek of the verse "unless" there is another manuscript the newer translations pull from, perhaps someone here knows of it and can post a fragment number.

in the KJV translation Jesus is saying that food is "cleansed by the body"
in the others, Jesus is "declaring all foods clean" two different meanings entirely.

Also noting that the whole context of this has to do with "eating with unwashen hands"

ὅτι οὐκ εἰσπορεύεται αὐτοῦ εἰς τὴν καρδίαν ἀλλ᾽ εἰς τὴν
that not it-is-going-into of-him into the heart but into the

κοιλίαν καὶ εἰς τὸν ἀφεδρῶνα ἐκπορεύεται καθαρίζων πάντα
bowel and into the latrine it-is-going-out cleansing all

τὰ βρώματα
the foods

above transliteration from Interlinear scripture analyzer

As you said Vic, the other translations use the NA/WH text though at least from the above greek I posted we see no crucial difference , the phrase "He declared" is non-existant
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