Did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean People & Food?
05-14-2011, 07:41 PM
RE: Did Peter's Vision of the Sheet Mean People & Food?
Quote:Original quote: Ne’arYah: So you’re introducing Galatians into the discussion.
Several times already, yes. Because Scripture interprets Scripture and that passage is relevant to the Vision and what it meant to Peter. Nearyah is referring to my post #136 for those reading along.
Quote:Original quote: Ne’arYah: This is the text you presented the other day along with some definitions from Strong’s which said to live after the manner of gentiles meant to do the following. Personally, I’m looking at the third definition #3 because it describes the meaning of the other two by using the term “in the NT”. ...
Of course you again have it incorrect for the definition source. It wasn't Strong's. It was Thayers. But I digress.
So now you want to take the definitions supplied--omit the first 2 which are in context to the meaning-- and wrap them around YOUR interpretation instead of studying and applying the correct definition. You want to dismiss the obvious definition and insert the obviously incorrect application.
LOL. Nearyah, look closely at what you have done:
From my post:
Quote:Paul, a Jew, rebuked Peter, a Jew, for being a hypocrite for living like the Gentiles and "not as do the Jews". Before Christ died, all The Jews lived according to the law of Moses which included CLEAN and UNCLEAN FOOD and separation from non Jews.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nearyah, See where I put the >>> after the definition of 1483 and it was pointing to the related word of 1482--------that isn't the definition of "after the manner of the Gentiles."--1483 was that definition. I was merely providing the related word defintion to show the first 2 definitions there in comparison to "after the manner of the Gentiles" was.
Because those Gentiles who were seeking the Truth and wanting to hear how to be saved and subsequently became BELIEVERS, were no longer going to be 'savouring the nature of the pagans". They were being taught to follow Christ. Gentiles with and alternately without Christ, live different lives and have different purposes. To even suggest that the Scriptures were stating Peter was living a pagan existance and had become a pagan/heathen is absurd at best. That is similar to suggesting that because Jesus sat with sinners He sinned. And Peter was not the only one to go to the Gentiles. However, Peter was apostle to particular Gentiles, and as were Paul and those who worked with him. Because of the Vision of the Sheet.
Let's finish my post quote from that prior post, which you have never been able to answer the questions to, without all this sidetracking and strawmen.
Quote:not >as do the Jews,G2452>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
1) to eat with, take food together with
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G4862 and G2068 (including its alternate)
*******from the definition above for eat*********"from G4862 and G2068 (including its alternate)"
Part of Speech: preposition
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: a primary preposition denoting union
1) to eat
2) to eat (consume) a thing
2a) to take food, eat a meal
3) metaphorically to devour, consume
Part of Speech: verb
Peter was eating with and living with the Gentiles in the manner of the Gentiles. Yet he was a Jew. So either he disobeyed the Mosaic Law and was in sin, or it was as Paul wrote when Peter separated from the Gentiles he had been eating and living with, he and the others "walked not uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel." It can't be both. Peter was living in the same manner as the Gentiles, in food and nothing being unclean to them. He was with people who, if he was abiding the law of Moses, would have been unclean for him to be with. Let alone eat with or partake of their food.
And believe it or not. Peter did not have a thermos of kosher coffee, and a lunchpail of 'clean' food, as he sat and ate with these Gentiles. Peter didn't say to them, Oh by the way, I brought my own breakfast, lunch and supper, and snacks, because your food is filth to me. But rest assured, God told me that you aren't filthy to me any longer. So I can be in your house and sit near you, but your food is really filthy to me so I won't be eating it. IN fact, I pretty much need to eat by myself because your food is an abomination to me and I can't allow myself to be defiled by even being near it. But not to worry. I can preach about our Savior Jesus Christ to you from the other room maybe or maybe through a window in your house.
Galatians was clearly related to the vision of the sheet and what it meant. That's why it was brought into the conversation. It had precisely the application of what was meant by the vision. And how some had not been taught nor understood not just that issue, but the prophecies about the Gentiles also being given salvation if they believed Christ, and that the promise of salvation was not based on the laws given to the fathers, but via the new covenant. We know it was after the vision of the Sheet. Because otherwise Peter would not have broken the Law of Moses in order to be sitting with, living with and after the manner of the Gentiles, and eating after the manner of the Gentiles. We know that it took place before Acts 15 because of what was said:
Notice first how the topic of Peter living like the Gentiles is brought in by Paul, who was also breaking the Mosaic Law by going to the Gentiles and being with them:
Gal 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.
Gal 2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:
Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Gal 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
Gal 2:10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: ...
What does James say in Acts 15, after the reason for the get together is established>
Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, ...
Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, [/b]that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law:***** to whom we gave no such commandment: **********
James clearly stated that the men sent from Judaea were not told to command that the Gentiles needed to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses. Instead he said they had troubled them and subverted their souls with those teachings.
And as Paul wrote to the Galatians>
Gal 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
And also notice what Paul says about keeping company with those of the world versus those who are brethren who by choice sin even though they know the truth:
1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
One cannot share Christ with others unless one can be with those who need Him. That's a lesson all need to learn, just as Peter and the other Jews needed to learn that all, regardless of race, sin, and can be made clean in Christ.
Quote:Original quote: Ne’arYah: We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:15-16) What Shaul is saying here is that they the set- apart did not live, nor walk in their (gentile) customs, he even goes as far to call their custom sin, which is obvious from the definition you’ve applied. He continues on to tell the people that they are all submitted to Yahusha (Jesus). I can give you a whole days worth of the term “works by the law” and what studies have shown this to mean according to the Dead Sea Scrolls. But let’s just stick with the bible and go back one chapter, right before Shaul sets up why he dug into Peter. And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers (Galatians 1:14)...
Nearyah, Jews by nature is meaning the whole people who were given the Sinai covenant to live by and were doing it because it was fully a part of their lives.
The Gentiles ---without Christ-- were sinners TOO. Just like the Jews. The point Paul was making was that no one is saved by the law. According to the Dead Seas Scrolls? would that be the gnostic ones or the ones that uphold the Scriptures?
Oh Yes! Paul did profit in the Jews religion.....I already answered your comment on that before and posted it to YOU, but will repost it again for you, just as all that you bring forward is the same stuff in over 70 posts. The same things again and again. Post #80
Quote:Original quote: Ne’arYah:>And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, ( Gal 1:14-15). This should tell you something
Quote: Yes, Ne'aryah, it tells us that before Christ died and rose again, Paul was zealous in the Jews religion--a pharisee of the pharisees, of the tribe of Benjamin, and so zealous in the Jews religion and in agreement with what the other Pharisees were teaching, he had rejected Christ and persecuted the church after Christ was crucified--both Jews and Gentiles...Acts 7,8; Jesus told the pharisees that they had invalidated the word of God with their traditions. And what did Paul say after he had persecuted the church, and was there even when Stephen was stoned to death and Christ finally delivered Paul; Paul said, and I quote:end post 80
3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
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