Pastor Or Reverend???

[sheep wrecked]

(07-24-2009 02:49 AM)Liberated by Faith Wrote:  Being a former pastor, I can attest that pastor's do a lot more than preach three times a week. A pastor has to spend many hours preparing for a sermon. Besides that, even though the Word of God says deacons are to do material work for the Church, the majority of the time it is the pastor who does the job because the congregation requires it. He takes time away from his family and job to appease the members of his flock.

Sounds to me like the system is a bit skewed. I don't see this practice in Scripture at all. I am not sure why all the sermons and material work and appeasing the flock. It's really astounding that anyone would put themselves under this kind of bondage. Somehow suffering for the sake of the Gospel seems to have taken on a whole new definition way outside a Biblical perspective

Quote:Contrary to the belief of many, all who are Christians should be under the guidance of a pastor in a local fellowship. Jesus is not our pastor. Years after his resurrection and ascension, He gave us pastors, teachers, evangelists, prophets and apostles for a purpose. The pastor would not have been given had Christ wanted us to shun going to a local fellowship. Scripture tells us not to forsake the assembling together... that means we are to gather. It is a directive in the Word of God for the children of God.

The word "pastor" is only used once in the NT [Eph 4:11]. The Greek word for pastor is G4166 ποιμήν poimēn which means "shepherd". In the epistles, the word is only used 3 times - once as pastor and the other two times as "shepherd". And guess who that Shepherd is?

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant

1 Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.



According to the NT there is no instruction or description of a pastor other than the definition. Could one say that a whole theology, tradition, and practice have been created and implemented that is not even in the Bible, but based on one text that uses the word "pastor"?

Quote:The command for the Elder to feed the flock was not there just to fill up a blank space in the Bible. It was there because God wants the flock to submit to that authority that He has placed in the local assembly.

If you are equating an "elder" with "pastor" it won't work according to the Biblical definitions. And it never does say in the NT that a pastor feeds the flock. Back to the drawing board .......... This is what the Scripture says:

1Pe 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
1Pe 5:2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
1Pe 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
1Pe 5:4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

So what is the reward of an elder who faithfully feeds the flock? And who ever started the whole thing that an elder is a "position" or "entitlement" in the church? The word "elder" simply means someone older or someone who has been appointed or sent. In other words a mature believer as listed in 1 Tim 5. These are *not* pastors

Quote:Your attack of pastor Chris was not showing Christian love for the Brethren at all. Scripture tells us not to rebuke an elder, but rather to entreat him. The rebuke of pastor Chris was contrary to the Word of God.

Chris was not "attacked". He was being shown the truth of God's Word. According to Paul, we are to rebuke an elder if they are out of line.

1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

What Chris is, I do not know, to be honest. It appears that the title of "pastor" is ambiguous and is not applicable according to the NT as far as i can tell.

Quote:If we are going to call ourselves children of God, we should be obeying His Holy Word... and that includes submitting to that authority in the local church... the pastor.

Actually, the NT does not say to submit to the authority of the local church. That is a real stretch of the text. I believe the NT says we are to submit to each other not lording it over another. From what I read, Jesus is the Head of the church [body of Christ - not the religious system].

The pastor is not the head of the church. Again, the area designated as pastor in the NT is unclear.

Quote:Pastor Chris did not come to this thread to pastor anyone, he knows where God wants him to pastor. He came here for fellowship.

Labeling someone a "pastor" is in direct opposition to what Jesus said. It appears that Jesus was prophetically speaking of the church for its "pastors" fit real well in this scenario:

Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

We would love to have Chris fellowship with us. It's up to him, really.

Quote:You cannot show hatred toward God's pastors on the earth or deny his directive to assemble under the pastors teachings and say you love God. Your actions prove otherwise.

No one here hates pastors. And there is no directive to assemble under a pastor or his teachings. The Word of God is our teacher, not a man. Those who love the truth, love God.