Pastor Or Reverend???

[Vic]

(07-23-2009 07:31 PM)pastor_chris Wrote:  Rick,

Honestly If I keep responding to you we are going to just lock horns. So I am going to back off of this thread. I have no desire to argue with a pastor-hater. You speak in a condescending manner as one who "knows" what my problems are and how I can "correct" them. It is obvious you were wounded or offended by a pastor somewhere at sometime. Your bias against Christian ministers is out there for the world to see. Hate to break it to you but while the Minister is to work with the sheep in the field His ministry is indeed different and was intended to be. But don't let the Bible get in the way of your opinion.

Church members are told in the scriptures to "Obey" their leaders. They are told to give their pastor "double honor" and they are told to make sure that they don't make His work a burden. The problem with the modern church is a lack of respect for the position of pastor and his hard work. People, like you who think that each man is his own little pope and that pastors are pompous "dictators" are the ones who cause church splits and massive conflict in churches. The average pastor loves his flock, feeds them faithfully, and sacrifices for them and for their well being. Arrogant, know it all types that ignore the biblical authority of the Elder reject any authority and in affect even cast off God's sovereignty.

Peter, Paul and all of the apostles received respect and were honored by the congregation. The early church would never have dreamed of challenging their God given leaders and their authority. It is ungodly and out right rebellion to attack and oppose God's annointed (unless that man has surrendered his moral authority to lead). Your view of the church would mean that every church congregation should go without a pastor and that there should be no elder/leader in any church. This would lead to chaos and discord.You are oblivious to the teaching of scripture and to the clear structure set up in the New Testament. You cannot reinevnt the church. But I am sure you'll try.

You can call me brother if you ever get off your high, sanctimonious horse in humility and apologize for judging me and others like me. Good day.

Chris,

First let me make this clear. I reread this thread and the Tithing thread, and the only one who did the attacking was you Chris. The conversations were about personal experience, scripture and opinions about those things. You took offense when there was no need of offense. You accused all of being pastor haters and similar, who simply voiced experiences and things they have seen. Your whole attitude --as I stated previously---first as a sister in Christ---and then as an admin and owner of this forum-- That's my authority here.---has been as an attacker---venting about things others have done and taking it out on posters here. That is hardly Christlike.

You seem to feel that you aka all pastors---hold the onus on hardwork and deserve special status. You said that no one would have treated any of the apostles the way you have been treated. We haven't mistreated you Chris. The people who aren't "obeying" you are the ones apparently mistreating you.

Further the apostle Paul--notice the lower case on apostle---that was his job description--said this in warning--

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

If people blindly followed simply because they call themselves pastor or elder or teacher----are they then obeying the Scriptures?

And of course we know Jesus said to never call someone rabbi, teacher...etc...guess you all missed that in seminary.

(07-24-2009 03:37 AM)pastor_chris Wrote:  Thanks Liberated. I was feeling pretty picked on. Nice to know that I am not alone

You appear to have a new friend. Why, Because he claims the same title. However, since we are one in the Body of Christ, and one in the Same Spirit--if we have the Holy Spirit---aren't we all brothers and sisters in Christ? Or is it just those who agree with you that are your brothers or sisters in Christ?

Because apparently, unless we give adulation simply because you are a "Pastor", instead of simply a brother in Christ, we really aren't worth more than dung on your shoe? or a possible source of tithe?

Why? Because you have made it clear to disagree with calling you pastor or elevating anyone on a pedestal is rebellion to God and the Scriptures.

You weren't ganged up on Chris. You made blanket accusations and statements towards all who ever posted--regardless of how benign the statements. That was wrong to do. And each person who felt it necessary responded. Apparently in agreement--although not by a conference call---but as individuals as God layed it on their hearts. All saying about the same thing....hmmm...being likeminded....what a concept.

You want preferential treatment, because you believe what you do is more important, more special, more godly and more deserving of reward. I think God will be the judge of that, because He knows the hearts. Here's what the Scriptures say about that concept:

1Ti 5:19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. 1Ti 5:20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.
1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

James 2:1-5 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. 2. For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; 3. And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: 4. Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? 5. Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

Incidentally the elders being referred to in the beginning of this chapter in 1 Timothy--is speaking about seniors---older people--unless you think women are to be "pastors". The same word is used. And it is all about how to treat the brethren.

1Ti 5:1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the younger men as brethren;
1Ti 5:2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
1Ti 5:3 Honour widows that are widows indeed.

1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Let's look at the attitude we are to have:

Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

James 4:5-8 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? 6. But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

1 Peter 5:1-7 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: 2. Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; 3. Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. 4. And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away. 5. Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 6. Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7. Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Rom 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

(07-24-2009 03:36 PM)pastor_chris Wrote:  Liberated,

Brother I do not judge you and neither does Jesus! I am sure you served the Lord faithfully until you knew you could not any longer. Anyone who would condemn you does so out of a false sense of pride and superiority. I am sure that Hebrews isn't condemning you because I am sure he is a man of God that would never fall into the pitfall of pride (right Hebrews?).

Anyways brother the Lord will reward your faithful service. And by the way there is NOTHING wrong with anything you said above. Every bit of it is true and I commend you for being courageous enough to speak out! God bless you brother!

You presume too much Chris. You don't know if Lib has been faithful or will be found faithful just because he used to be a pastor. That is presumptuous and goes against only God knowing hearts and knowing the reward of each. You have a made a judgment based on partiality.

If I go by your attitude to all others on this board we are destined to hell and not brothers or sister in the Lord. Why? because you were held scripturally accountable and you didn't like it.

Incidentally, I gave you a lot of Scriptures in my responses to you--and have not seen one response to them. I can love you in the Lord Chris, but that doesn't mean I am going to bow to you, put you on a pedestal or agree with you if you are going against the Scriptures. And if you think I should, you are simply not a pastor.