Pastor Or Reverend???

[pastor_chris]

Rose,

You obviously didnt read my posts very carefully. I said I was happy and content. I was making a point about American materialism and it seems that it escaped and that rather I was labeled a covetous, discontented, greedy pastor. It is clear there is a click here that backs each other up and hammers new "intruders". If anyone read my posts carefully and watched for some nuance they'd find that there is more to my posts than the characeter presented here by Vic.

I am not going to fit in here, it is plain as the nose on my face. This is the clickiest forum ever. Have fun y'all.

[Rose of Shushan]

Chris, I had been reading all your posts but I didnt join in because Rick and th e others were articulating the same things that I had been thinking.If they were saying it well, I didnt need to add posts saying the same thing.
So I have been reading and while I dont think you are a greedy covetous pastor there were some things that I find worrying.But Chris we all have things in our characters that God finds worrying. We are all works in progress.
When I read your last couple of posts it is so disappointing, I really was hoping that dialogue is possible and that you are open to what we are trying to tell you here is for your own good not because we want to exclude you for any reason.
This is a discussion forum and such forums are not places where people are going to be discussing how much they totally agree with each other all the time. Theres going to be conflict but we have to learn to discuss and disagree without taking things personally, taking sides and adding personal elements to cloud the discussions.
Its not a case of fitting in really, everyone fits in as believers yet some people do nto want to look at what the Scripture really says and instead get caught up in all sorts of strawmen when they see their long held beliefs challenged.Im not saying you are,just speaking in general.
It would be sad to see you go Chris, hope that you do stick around.

[Mark]

Pastor Chris,

I hope that you do not stop coming to this site. I came here in such bondage that I was ready to walk away from God because I couldn't understand how trying to live for Him could be so hard. I was trapped by many false doctrines and beliefs that it felt my head would explode. It was so engrained in me through the teachings I had been part of that I too felt that some people were really attacking sensitive subjects and it was an uncomfortable experience at first. But God kept telling me to come back and to LISTEN with an open mind and an open heart. Soon I was searching the scriptures on these very topics and finding that they had been TAUGHT to me by MEN, not put in my heart by GOD. There is a BIG difference. When I began to pray and read and ask God to reveal His truth and His Word to me, I began to slowly let the scales fall from my eyes and I had to let go of things that I held to be true. I was holding onto them because I was TAUGHT to. Since I have been coming here, I have found that there are so many others in the same position I was in. I know it is hard sometimes, but God will not send His word forth and have it come back void. Everytime I join a discussion here or even simply browse the posts, I feel that God is lighting the path in my life. I am so grateful that He lead me here and I sincerely hope that you will stay. God will do a great work in you. You just have to be willing to let Him do it. Believe me when I say I speak from experience. I am STILL letting Him and there are STILL areas I am having difficulty in. But I am trusting Him to lead me in the truth. Stick around and see how He blesses you too!

God Bless,

Mark

[heb13-13]

(07-25-2009 08:43 AM)Mark Wrote:  Pastor Chris,

Stick around and see how He blesses you too!

God Bless,

Mark

Your post blessed me! Blessed are the Peacemakers.

[pastor_chris]

Mark,

You have been very kind to me. Thank you.

[sheep wrecked]

(07-25-2009 02:27 PM)pastor_chris Wrote:  Mark,

You have been very kind to me. Thank you.

Chris,

What Mark is pointing out is that you are in error. All of us have been there in one way or another. Because Mark was open minded and has a love for the truth, his eyes have been opened. This forum was never "out to get you". The attitude you presented was not one of friendly conversation, but aggressiveness and contempt for the concepts presented to you. You have taken offense rather than humbly seeking the truth.

We have showed you many Scriptures that do not support your current position on pastoring. As someone I once knew said: "people don't really want the truth, they are just looking for answers to confirm their own beliefs".

We have presented Scripture, which is obviously not in line with what you have been taught. All we have asked is that you honestly seek the truth instead of continuing to defend your position with ridicule and superiority.

Please pray about this, Chris. We are not the enemy. We are here to help people find God's truth, not man's.

[pastor_chris]

Sheep,

First I do appreciate how you have approached me. I take no issue with you whatsoever. Some comments on here towards me were unfair and I wish that those who made them would lighten up and give me the hand of fellowship. With a few this just hasnt happened, even after I humbled myself and admitted that I had been rash. I dont think my view is wrong but I think my initial approach was hasty, and in some cases unfair. I just wish everyone would have the same conciliatory spirit, they do not.

In additon I offered a very detailed set of verses that prove my point rather well and to this point not one has really tried to refute my position in an effective manner. The verses that have been offered against a paid ministry so far have had nothing to do with the position or office in the scriptures. All the verses are dealing with Christian vitrue not the biblical interpretation of bishop, pastor, elder, etc. Since it is this group that wishes to point out "error" and redefine what the church currently believes about the ministry the reality is that the burden of proof is on you.

To this point a compelling case HAS NOT ben made. Talking about "where our teasure is" is wonderful but this does not help the issue. In order to prove your point you have prove that a paid ministry is wrong and actually condemned in scripture. It is not. I also find it amusing that those who want to push this paradigm dont even attend a fellowship. That seems quite agenda drive. In other words Sheep you are all just justifying yourselves and you ow position just as you intimated I was doing.

Let the scriptures about leadership do the talking. That is where the answer lies.


Blessings!!

[sheep wrecked]

(07-25-2009 06:04 PM)pastor_chris Wrote:  Sheep,

First I do appreciate how you have approached me. I take no issue with you whatsoever. Some comments on here towards me were unfair and I wish that those who made them would lighten up and give me the hand of fellowship. With a few this just hasnt happened, even after I humbled myself and admitted that I had been rash. I dont think my view is wrong but I think my initial approach was hasty, and in some cases unfair. I just wish everyone would have the same conciliatory spirit, they do not.

In additon I offered a very detailed set of verses that prove my point rather well and to this point not one has really tried to refute my position in an effective manner. The verses that have been offered against a paid ministry so far have had nothing to do with the position or office in the scriptures. All the verses are dealing with Christian vitrue not the biblical interpretation of bishop, pastor, elder, etc. Since it is this group that wishes to point out "error" and redefine what the church currently believes about the ministry the reality is that the burden of proof is on you.

To this point a compelling case HAS NOT ben made. Talking about "where our teasure is" is wonderful but this does not help the issue. In order to prove your point you have prove that a paid ministry is wrong and actually condemned in scripture. It is not. I also find it amusing that those who want to push this paradigm dont even attend a fellowship. That seems quite agenda drive. In other words Sheep you are all just justifying yourselves and you ow position just as you intimated I was doing.

Let the scriptures about leadership do the talking. That is where the answer lies.


Blessings!!

My observations are this:

1) The authority of this forum belongs to the owner [Vic]. You agreed to that authority when you joined per the rules.

2) You presented your experiences as a pastor which showed that you were obviously misrepresenting Scripture. We tried to point that out to you using Scripture and the definitions of words used in the NT. You chose to ignore that and continued posting using a tone of superiority and comeuppance - old fashioned word, but effective.

3) When you were corrected firmly by Vic, you chose not to be admonished but retaliated with accusatory posts calling her a liar. It's kind of hard to deny what you did - it's in writing.

4) We have asked you to deal with the Scripture referring to a pastor - of which there is none but one verse. All the offices of elder, pastor, bishop are different Greek words with different meanings. And unfortunately for your position you have no, nada, none, zilch to support your role as a pastor - per scripture other than to attach the meaning of elder/bishop to pastor which is not even referred to in the NT!

We even showed you that pastor means Shepherd and the texts which show that Jesus is our Shepherd. There are NO texts that show a pastor should be paid for his services. There is NO provision in the NT for a full time pastor who gets a salary, benefits, etc. That is not even implied. There are so many posts that point out to you that those who serve the sheep have NO more authority over them than other sheep. We are all in this together - there is NO class distinction.

5) Your "apology" was conditional and obviously not contrite considering how you have posted since. Calling the owner of this forum a liar is against forum rules, not in good taste, it is offensive, and it shows that your fruit is rotten.

6) We have tried to work with you, but you refuse to consider what we have presented. Instead, your heart seeks the admiration of man, the ability to lord it over your congregation, and your pride in your "position"/education, and expect your congregation to bow [with their cash] to your needs, your desires, and your "office". This is not even remotely Biblical.

7) If you want to continue to post here, please be advised that you must submit to the forum rules, cease and desist your aggressive and purposeful agitation of the others by sarcasm and favoritism. You are coming off as a very dishonorable person. I cannot imagine that you have a congregation. It is no wonder you are having major issues. Consider the spirit that you are "ruling", or as you call it "pastoring" with. It's not of God.

[pastor_chris]

Sheep,

Vic's correction is unfounded, unbiblical, and flat out a complete perversion of scripture.

In addition a woman is not permitted to "teach" a man, so sorry but I will not break the scripture for you vic, or anyone else. She is not my pastor and neither are you. Men are pastors, women are not qualified according to the scripture.

No one made a good or solid scriptural case against my interpretation of what the role of a pastor is. It is all nonsense which is repudiated by solid hermeneutics, and the witness church history. Just as you were sucked into the Hewbrew Roots cult you have been sucked into a belief system regarding the ministry and the role of pastors that is decidedly unbiblical. Every major denomination is a testimony against you as well as every commentary, every seminary, and evey Greek scholar in church history. You ought to be corrected and repent of your obfiscation of the truth.

Vic you have been razzing me for a while. Your goal is to run me off. I know that a ban is coming. That is how things work around here.

[sheep wrecked]

(07-25-2009 10:50 PM)pastor_chris Wrote:  Sheep,

Vic's correction is unfounded, unbiblical, and flat out a complete perversion of scripture.

She scripturally refuted you. That is Biblical.

Quote:In addition a woman is not permitted to "teach" a man, so sorry but I will not break the scripture for you vic, or anyone else. She is not my pastor and neither are you. Men are pastors, women are not qualified according to the scripture.

It's really funny that you drag that up after posting here for several days. Now, all of sudden you want to pull out the "woman is not permitted to teach a man" canard. That really takes the cake

The context of that scripture is WITHIN THE ASSEMBLY aka preach to an assembly of people where men are present. Perhaps you could explain why Priscilla taught Apollos with her husand Aquila. Or how about the women who were the first to preach the Gospel upon the instruction of Jesus Himself. hmmmm ......

Quote:No one made a good or solid scriptural case against my interpretation of what the role of a pastor is. It is all nonsense which is repudiated by solid hermeneutics, and the witness church history. Just as you were sucked into the Hewbrew Roots cult you have been sucked into a belief system regarding the ministry and the role of pastors that is decidedly unbiblical. Every major denomination is a testimony against you as well as every commentary, every seminary, and evey Greek scholar in church history. You ought to be corrected and repent of your obfiscation of the truth.

The case "against" you is that there is no Scripture to support your view. Church history is not a valid witness - sorry to burst your bubble. Denominational positions are not God's Word. They are the doctrines and traditions of man.

The Greek works against you, as we have shown. You have chosen to ignore it, refusing to refute it. The onus in on you.

Quote:Vic you have been razzing me for a while. Your goal is to run me off. I know that a ban is coming. That is how things work around here.

The disrespect that you have towards Vic is ungracious and completely out of character for one who proclaims to be "called" to the ministry. Do you think this edifies the body of Christ? Where is the evidence of the fruit of the Spirit?

Vic hasn't responded to you since your refusal to answer her posts--and since you called her a liar--she removed herself from dealing with you to prevent anyone thinking it was retaliation. She turned any actions concerning you over to myself and Rose. She doesn't think you should be banned. And has left it up to us to deal with your rudeness and lack of Christlike behavior. So again, your accusation that she is"razzing" you and coming after you is as false as calling her a liar or anyone else on this board as pastor haters and all the other false accusations that spill so easily from you "pastor chris".

Why should we ban you? You seem to be shooting yourself in the foot more with every post.

ps: the warning level will eventually catch up to you and then a ban is automatic. You need to stop dissing Vic. Seriously.