Pastor Or Reverend???

[heb13-13]

(07-27-2009 02:42 PM)pastor_chris Wrote:  I don't know a single pastor that even wants to make that kind of money. Our hearts are right. I'd rather take 25% of that and use the other $150,00o to minister to others. Most pastors are NOT greedy brother Rick. We have a heart for the lost and we want to see Christ touch peoples lives. We are not in the ministry to get rich. But we do want healthcare for our kids, food for our families, and clothing etc. In the modern world with a family of seven (which is what I have). Making anything less than 50k or 60k is tough. This is why most families have two working parents, just so they can bring in 50-60k and put food on the table and pay the bills.

Brother Chris,

Ok, looks like you are starting to work with us. Your next post says about 250,000.00. I was going to revise mine to 200,000.00. That is only 43,000.00 in 1970 dollars due to inflation, so 250,000.00 is good.

I thought I was being generous, taking into consideration all the duties of a minister. I told you that I was not being sarcastic. It was not a Strawman, but that's ok, let's move on.

I have given you two figures now and the duties of a Modern Day Denominational Pastor, more or less. And you have just come back with your first figure of 250,000.00. I know most men have "good" hearts and a heart for the lost but the religious system, Chris, has a way of corrupting their hearts and killing any life of Christ inside them that they started with. I just want you to be careful about this. There are too many traps waiting for you to fall into.

Now that we are past the salary thingy, let's talk. You have told us what your idea of compensation is and for all that work, I think that is fair. Now tell us what a modern day minister's duties are in case my list is lacking. I already know it is very hard work and takes many, many hours per week. But tell us from your perspective.

And I have many more serious questions, if you don't mind. We can all see how the modern day Pastor seems to be doing just about everything and all the Body has to do is show up, sit down, listen, pay their tithe, give honor to the leadership for doing all the tasks that are needed to be done and generally, stay away from conflict and try to make the Pastor's life a joy.

Fair enough. The congregation is paying for a certain service and it is being performed, not to mentioned all the other things in my previous list. And, yes, I did not forget, that it is not just admin type tasks but actually ministering to real people which, I am sure (not sarcastic) is why you got into the "ministry". I think I am beginning to see you a little better now, Chris and I believe your motives are pure, but of course, only God knows.

Can you answer these questions? A lot of people here don't know exactly how church leadership works and this would be enlightening, I am sure to all of us. You see, we are trying to figure out how to shoehorn today's Pastor into the "Pastor" of the Scriptures and frankly, we just need some help. These questions do not reflect on YOU at all. Just looking for your honest answers.

Is the compensation relative? Meaning, whether you are a Pastor in a lower class neighborhood, middle class neighborhood or upper class neighborhood? Since the duties are the same, is the compensation the same?

What are the parameters for figuring out what a Pastor should be paid?
Is it results or just willingness to serve or both? Do number and level of degrees play a part in the determination of salary? Is there an entry level salary and what would be a top tier salary?

What would the results be that your salary is measured by? Who does the "measuring". What are the parameters for measurement? Church growth in quantity, quality, both or what?

By the way, how do you measure quality of Church growth?

Since you are being paid, do you get an annual review by the people that pay your salary?

If God calls you, for what reason(s) can the church fire you?

Do you serve at the pleasure of men or God? If God, then they cannot boot you, right?

If they want to fire you and you did nothing wrong, are they in sin?

What should the annual "cost of living" raise be?

If the church has a down year (economic downturn) and the tithes are low, where do you make the cuts.

How much of the money goes back into the Saints lives? Give me a percentage of total take on a Sunday. Or do you deal with the budget at all?
- Do you actively look to see whose lives you can improve with say an upgrade to a better apartment in a better part of town? Do you actively inquire who the poor people in your church are that need home repairs or medical checkups or anything else but cannot afford them? Are you the kind of Shepherd that know the condition of ALL of your Sheep?

- Do you or someone else actively look to see who you can help get a better job by putting the money that is tithed to work in their lives for say a trade school?

- When you are invited over to certain people's houses in the church for a barbecue or lunch or dinner, do you ever see the poorest of your congregation at these invites?

- Do you notice whether the richest in the congregation seem to pay you a lot of attention and do you feel like they want more attention from you than others want? Do they seem to you like they are entitled to more attention from you?

- In what kinds of ways are you or someone else on staff sowing the Saints money back into their lives or is it all going for staff salary and the building, parking lot and programs?

- How many people are in your congregation and what is the weekly total tithe?

- Do you know anything about church finances or is that area relegated to other men to keep you from conflict of interest. Ideally, you should know nothing about the money that comes in and where it goes, who gives or who doesn't.

These are all very serious questions that I know a lot of people would like to know the answers to. You have been taught how to run a church and are in the best position to tell us. Writing on the Internet may be misleading but let me assure you there is no sarcasm at all in this post. I hope we can learn something from each other.

Thanks in advance,

P.S. Does anyone else have any questions?

Rick