Pastor Or Reverend???

[pastor_chris]

Rose,

Most of the mobile homes are about the same size as my house, many others are much larger. MY home is not fancy. It is very humble. Rose you have judged me. You made an assumption. You are a hypocrite

[Rose of Shushan]

I notice you dont address any of the points I made or the scriptures I provided yet you do reply on the house details.That is very telling.and then you insult me but it's ok I can turn the other cheek

[pastor_chris]

you insulted me

[Rose of Shushan]

[color=#4B0082]I dont see where I insulted you.Anyway, any chance of some discussion on those scriptures and points I posted? any comments on that post?[/color]

[Vic]

(07-27-2009 08:05 PM)pastor_chris Wrote:  you insulted me

You are too much

[pastor_chris]

No one answers my questions. I get repeatedly insulted and I get disciplined for calling someone "dishonest" It is fair game to hammer me. Rose you just went after me. And now your not big enough to admit it. You are a coward too!

[Rose of Shushan]

Chris this is a discussion forum.I did not "go after " you. I am trying for us to discuss Scriptures and how they pertain to thread topics. But I do see that you do not want to discuss the Scripture but go on various side trails.So what more can I say really? If you do not want to discuss Scriptures without getting personal why post in such a forum?

[Vic]

(07-27-2009 08:24 PM)pastor_chris Wrote:  No one answers my questions. I get repeatedly insulted and I get disciplined for calling someone "dishonest" It is fair game to hammer me. Rose you just went after me. And now your not big enough to admit it. You are a coward too!

Well, Chris, that pretty much covers it. You don't need to name call, or retaliate--is that how you "equip" the "sinners" under your care? You won't answer questions Chris or the Scriptures given to you. Many have answered your questions, but you won't accept any answers that don't say what you want said.

I warned you, repeatedly. You have been given more leeway in your bad behaviors, including total disrespect to the admins, than anyone that has ever been on this forum...out of respect for your possible calling as a pastor or teacher....too bad you don't respect us as fellow believers. You could have had good fellowship and friendships here Chris.

Aside from the things I already mentioned to you when I warned you today, you insult the women on this board by refusing to honor their request to not call them sister, sweetie, etc. You refuse to take Scripture as the final authority, Chris and I must wonder how you can equip the saints/sinners in your care if you don't.

You are incredibly argumentative and contentious and accept nothing from anyone, regardless the scripture or thoughts behind it. You post unsubstaniated information as facts. And you refuse to answer the questions put to you but insist that we answer yours [which we did many times]

We were going to put you under full moderation but after 91 posts Chris, it is obvious you don't want to hear anything we have to say. You couldn't even answer my posts to you. Again.

So I am really sorry it is ending like this. I originally thought you came to fellowship and discuss HR. Too bad you didn't even bother with that, but got caught up in your indignation over something that shouldn't have been an issue. I hope you will consider all the things we have tried to convey to you. Where I offended you, my apologies. It's never been my intent to offend.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25. In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26. And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Since forums and websites are inherently unbiblical to fellowship or be edified by according to you, I suppose you'll be getting off the internet and email. Each to their own I guess.

Sorry Chris, it gives me no pleasure to ban you. But you are banned. Just like you kept wanting.

[Mary]

I have read through this thread and the one on attending church, and found many of the replies edifying and encouraging. They pulled together many of my scattered thoughts, feelings and decisions that I have made over the years and particularly in the last 4 years. I agree that as we mature as Christians we are all responsible to feed the flock. I believe that within fellowship, roles emerge and develop and diminish as needs arise and change, but that there is an order to the operation of the fellowship that requires leadership and accountability for all who participate, as described in Titus - particularly Titus 1:5 to Titus 2: 1-15.

I am warmed by God's provision for me in my new country to find a small group of believers to fellowship with in which no-one titles himself Pastor and everyone shares in roles and responsibilities. Giving is freewill offering, not tithing, and no plate is passed around. Children are not sent off to Sunday school and are also included in Bible study. 2 men, (one of whom I call an elder out of respect for both his age maturity and his Christian maturity in my mind or if I refer to him to others. When talking with him I call him by his name) share the role of presenting the scriptures and discussion around them (sermons), but I see that there are other men in the group who are also taking an increasing role in this way. Women are encouraged to pray, speak and ask questions and teach as much as men, although not to present a sermon. The group seems similar to what Rick presented earlier in the thread. They are not perfect, but they are seeking God. Everytime we meet it is like a family gathering ( and food and the sharing of it is quite important ).

I fellowship with them 2 or 3 times a month, but also with other Christians (some related to me, some well loved friends, and some strangers except that they are Christians too) by telephone, internet, and face to face. I also fellowship with my 6 year old son and that is a great blessing to me: a joy and a privilege to teach him from the Bible and share God's love with him. For my older son I relied too much on the church - Sunday School - to teach him.

Which brings me to the idea of being "called" to be a pastor of a church. When someone says to me they have been "called"' to be such or to do such I immediately become agitated and sceptical. Experience has shown me that often this "call" is dubious, for example a pastor I know was "called most definitely" but now has separated from the church and his wife and child. A young woman in my last church was "called" to be a missionary in West Africa. The congregation was asked to financially support her to enable her to go there and support her while she was there (the mission has since closed) . My problem with it was that she had started running a youth group, which my then 11 year old son attended and found enjoyable and encouraging because he was allowed to ask questions and join in discussions. After 3 or 4 sessions the young lady had her calling and the pastor took over the youth group and my son no longer felt able to participate as freely as before. There was such a need among the young people in the church for this young woman's ministry and approachable manner, and yet she was "called" away. I have never been able to understand why.

When I look at Titus 1 vs 5 - 9, it does not give me the impression that a "calling" is what results in a position of leadership.

Reading through the two threads made me recall a sermon on the parable of the mustard seed - (this sermon is by David Legge of Preach the Word)
and I think it might be an interesting discussion for a new thread, which I will start.

Thanks for "listening" to my rambling thoughts!

[Vic]

Appreciate your thoughts Mary.

God is so gracious to provide. Sometimes we suffer or those around us suffer because the focus isn't Christ, but, 'doing' the things we think are of Christ.

I think a lot of people do get pulled into the 'calling' mentality because it can be a pride issue. They become special. Yet we see when the apostles had to choose a replacement for Judas. They sought God's will through prayer, as a united group of believers. Yes, they had a special ministry--Jesus said they had been chosen for the task of apostle for witnessing who He was and all He did, and the subsequent spreading of the gospel and passing along the sound doctrine as God laid it on their hearts, and which is found in the Scriptures for all to study and learn.

Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

Joh 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

And of course all believers can apply those verses pertaining to belonging to Him and being hated for His sake. We see that when the elders were chosen--it wasnt them saying they were called to be an elder or 'pastor' or 'bishop'. The apostles chose and ordained them as God led, because they fulfilled the requirements of having faith in Christ and sound doctrine and the 'list' of God given requirements.

God chooses to use each of us to edify the Body of Christ in some manner. All parts working together. Paul wrote of doing all things to edify others and specifically the church--not the building--the Body of Christ.

1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

1Th 5:11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

The reality is, once we have become equipped to know the scriptures, to discern between good and evil, we are to be doing as God would have us.

I can't understand the attitude of keeping people from maturity in Christ, and 'under' a specific person. We are each to reach out to others for Christ. Many like to put that on 'missionaries', pastors etc. But we are all soldiers of the cross, and all have been commissioned according to the Scriptures to serve Christ, as He leads.

If all simply gather for self edification-as is common in many churches-and there is never growth to the 'perfecting of the saints', which under many 'pastors' seems to happen--dependence on him instead of Christ, focus on what one gets out of the church, instead of having the servant attitude demonstrated by Christ and the apostles...

Ephesians 4:12-15 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Rom 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
Rom 15:14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

Co 12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

We are not to remain babes or children in thought or understanding. We are to mature in the faith, in the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Scriptures. Whatever then He would have us do, we have been growing in knowledge and maturity in order to do those things. I think the phrase of calling or ministry can simply describe what He wants us to do. The issue becomes if it is what God chose, or what each person chose to say God called them to. It's not always easy to discern what God wants us to do. In the end, He wants a willing heart...that depends on Him.