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***Vic*** · 07-28-2009, 02:48 PM

I believe a few of the Dads want to talk about this hands on topic, from a dad's perspective, but hey you mom's and grandma's you can throw in the info when you have mind to.

Th_airplane

Mark · (This post was last modified: 08-02-2009 04:20 PM by Mark.)

HELP!!!!!

Okay, I'm trying to be calm. My wife and I have 2 boys, 11 and 14. I won't get into a lot of detail regarding our faith, but I left the Oneness Pentecostal church we all attended about 6 months ago. My wife still goes and brings the boys (against their choice) because she believes that is where they need to be. There has not been any sort of youth group for a few years. They are the only 2 youths that attend.
Anyway, we have had a lot of struggles with the oldest. He is really rebelling against God. he says he isn't sure he believes everything he has been taught and wants to make the choice of whether or not he goes to church. My wife says "No Way!!" So, he is drifting further and further away. We do a family devotion once a week. He shows no interest whatsoever. I don't know how to reach him. None of his friends go to church at all. They are not influencing him not to go, but I know that they also don't encourage him to either. I'm afraid that they are rubbing off on him. I feel that as the father I should be doing more but I don't know what. My wife is firm on keeping him in the Oneness church. We really can't even discuss it because I am not attending any church. Anyone have any advice? I'm desperate to keep him close to God.

heb13-13 · 08-02-2009, 04:28 PM

(08-02-2009 04:19 PM)Mark Wrote: HELP!!!!!

Okay, I'm trying to be calm. My wife and I have 2 boys, 11 and 14. I won't get into a lot of detail regarding our faith, but I left the Oneness Pentecostal church we all attended about 6 months ago. My wife still goes and brings the boys (against their choice) because she believes that is where they need to be. There has not been any sort of youth group for a few years. They are the only 2 youths that attend.
Anyway, we have had a lot of struggles with the oldest. He is really rebelling against God. he says he isn't sure he believes everything he has been taught and wants to make the choice of whether or not he goes to church. My wife says "No Way!!" So, he is drifting further and further away. We do a family devotion once a week. He shows no interest whatsoever. I don't know how to reach him. None of his friends go to church at all. They are not influencing him not to go, but I know that they also don't encourage him to either. I'm afraid that they are rubbing off on him. I feel that as the father I should be doing more but I don't know what. My wife is firm on keeping him in the Oneness church. We really can't even discuss it because I am not attending any church. Anyone have any advice? I'm desperate to keep him close to God.

Hi Mark,

Read this 5 part series when you get a chance. What to do so your children don't jump ship to the world when they get older.

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/chi...ping-ship/

Here are some great articles on Husband/Wife Relations.
http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/articles/mar...relations/

Enjoy. You will learn some things that will really help you.

Rick

***Vic*** · 08-02-2009, 09:24 PM

(08-02-2009 04:19 PM)Mark Wrote: HELP!!!!!

Okay, I'm trying to be calm. My wife and I have 2 boys, 11 and 14. I won't get into a lot of detail regarding our faith, but I left the Oneness Pentecostal church we all attended about 6 months ago. My wife still goes and brings the boys (against their choice) because she believes that is where they need to be. There has not been any sort of youth group for a few years. They are the only 2 youths that attend.
Anyway, we have had a lot of struggles with the oldest. He is really rebelling against God. he says he isn't sure he believes everything he has been taught and wants to make the choice of whether or not he goes to church. My wife says "No Way!!" So, he is drifting further and further away. We do a family devotion once a week. He shows no interest whatsoever. I don't know how to reach him. None of his friends go to church at all. They are not influencing him not to go, but I know that they also don't encourage him to either. I'm afraid that they are rubbing off on him. I feel that as the father I should be doing more but I don't know what. My wife is firm on keeping him in the Oneness church. We really can't even discuss it because I am not attending any church. Anyone have any advice? I'm desperate to keep him close to God.

Hi Mark,

My heart goes out to you. It's not easy raising our children for the Lord. I am going to be really direct with you on this, because I believe you already know this in your heart. As long as you and your wife are in spiritual disagreement, and your wife is determining what will happen spiritually in your home and with your boys and making all the decisions...there's not going to be peace and there isn't going to be resolution for your boys. They see you and your wife divided---rightly so from a spiritual perspective--but wrongly before them.

I am speaking as a wife, mom and grandma and a sister in the Lord. The battle isn't just about your boys. It's about your whole spiritual place as head of your home and making decisions jointly with your wife for your family. The reality is--one of you is making the spiritual and church decisions the rest are having to live by. The obvious issue is...how do you honor God in all this?

Many times moms have to take the lead in the spiritual things in a family, because the dad won't. I believe Rick said many guys don't view church as relevant. That might be part of it. But I have also seen men just aren't as committed to the spiritual growth and necessity of it for their families. In saying that, I honestly see you Mark, desparately trying to win your wife over to Scriptural soundness and leaving the Oneness teachings. Obviously at this time, she isn't budging.

So, what do you do for your boys, in order to show them Christ in you, be a spiritual example to them and show your proper roles as their dad, husband and called to be spiritual head of your home?

These are the questions that I see must be resolved in order to help your sons commit to the truth of Christ and the Scriptures. Is it possible for you to take your boys on even a walk in a park and talk to them the things on your heart about Christ, about the Scriptures, about what you see as right and wrong in what they--and you--had learned. And what you want them to know now.

These are just some thoughts Mark. I know it can get really tough with family. But seek God's will in it Mark. He is not going to leave you without understanding on how to deal with your boys and the whole situation you are in.

Sendprys

heb13-13 · 08-03-2009, 12:09 AM

Well, that's exactly right Vic. And you are right, Mark should know this and I am sure he does. The dynamics between a husband and wife can be quite complicated with years of history. It is always good to hear both sides.

Mark your boys see the lack of unity between you and your wife. And they have probably heard the arguments that you both have had over spiritual beliefs. They don't know what they believe because they see Mom and Dad in disagreement over what THEY believe!

Your wife should not be leading the family. You already know this. It is bringing confusion because you are also trying to lead (I guess), and the boys are confused as to who is calling the shots.

Your wife is doing it out of FEAR because she may think you have abdicated your role as the head in your family. She is fearful for the boys. She wants them to grow up and serve the Lord and does not realize that it would be better for her boys if she were in agreement with you. But she is insecure in her relationship with you, spiritually.

I understand that you are getting free from a lot of religious bondage and this worries your wife because she looks at it as both of you are not in agreement and going in the same direction anymore and may even look at you as maybe backsliding. A lot of people measure where a person is at in the Lord by whether they "go to church" or not. Maybe she is doing this. Does she observe you hungering and thirsting after the Lord, daily? Are you loving her as Christ loved the Church?

Mark, somehow you need to reassure your wife that you are following the Lord and also pray about finding some alternative fellowship if you can. She is probably afraid that you are just going to stay at home, away from Christians.

There are so many things involved here and without a personal relationship with the BOTH of you, it is very hard to give advice. Only general, obvious advice can be given.

How have you gone about sharing with her the Light that God has been bringing to you? Does she see you spending much time with the boys? Do you have your boy's heart? Is the extent of your spiritual time with your family a devotional once a week?

Have you ever established strong fellowship with your wife in the Word? You guys should be one and should be discovering and moving into the Truth of the Word of God, together. How is it that it has only happened to you?

Anyway, my heart goes out to you Mark, and you definitely need to show love and understanding. A lot of it!! You wife needs trust, security, peace and hope and you need wisdom.

1Pe 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Mark speak with your wife privately and not in front of the boys when speaking about these matters. Talk to her about how important it is to show a united front and dwell in peace and love in front of your kids while you and she work through "these things".

Rick[/color]

Mark · 08-03-2009, 08:49 AM

Vic and Rick,

Thank you so much for your posts. Yes, I do understand everything you have both pointed out. I have tried to show my wife that I am not walking away from God by not attending the Oneness church, but of course she has been told that is exactly what has happened. You have to understand the fact that if it is not a Oneness church one attends, it si not the truth. There is no other gospel to preach but theirs. This forum would not be acceptable if I were attending the church still. So, any discussion her and I would have but be in vain because nothing lines up with their doctrine (though they say they teach "the whole gospel to the whole world") So that is where I am. I cannot discuss these things with her which makes me feel trapped. She will not accept any of it if it does not come from the Oneness perspective. I just have to continue to pray and ask you to do the same.
As for the boys, yes I do have plenty of time to spend with them. I do share some of my thoughts and feelings with them. They understand more than I may think. I don't try to lure them away from what mom tells them. I just simply tell them what I feel. They are not happy where they are either. So, just keep praying for us. Thank you again for your posts. God is good and I know that His will will be done.

heb13-13 · (This post was last modified: 08-03-2009 11:00 AM by heb13-13.)

(08-03-2009 08:49 AM)Mark Wrote: Vic and Rick,

Thank you so much for your posts. Yes, I do understand everything you have both pointed out. I have tried to show my wife that I am not walking away from God by not attending the Oneness church, but of course she has been told that is exactly what has happened. You have to understand the fact that if it is not a Oneness church one attends, it si not the truth. There is no other gospel to preach but theirs. This forum would not be acceptable if I were attending the church still. So, any discussion her and I would have but be in vain because nothing lines up with their doctrine (though they say they teach "the whole gospel to the whole world") So that is where I am. I cannot discuss these things with her which makes me feel trapped. She will not accept any of it if it does not come from the Oneness perspective. I just have to continue to pray and ask you to do the same.
As for the boys, yes I do have plenty of time to spend with them. I do share some of my thoughts and feelings with them. They understand more than I may think. I don't try to lure them away from what mom tells them. I just simply tell them what I feel. They are not happy where they are either. So, just keep praying for us. Thank you again for your posts. God is good and I know that His will will be done.

Mark, even as I was writing my post to you, I understood where you were coming from but I had to ask the questions I asked.

Do you still go with your wife and kids to church? I know your wife is probably using the Pastor and Elders against you and you are in a very bad position. Have you talked with the Pastor and Elders about the fact that they should counsel your wife to follow you even if they believe you are wrong? And not to do so, is rebellion against God's Word. That is what the Scriptures say. But of course, they will not do this. Their doctrine says they are the only way and that it is ok for a wife to rebel and go against her husband's wishes. The Pastor and Elders are leading your household through your wife and they will be held responsible. In fact everyone that teaches false doctrine will be held responsible. Knowing this is not helping your situation, I know.

This is what many religious denominations have done. Neutered the men, by preaching false doctrine and controlling the family through the wife (using her fear that her children will grow up godless if not in THEIR church).

They are in sin if they are counseling your wife to go against you. I cannot say it any plainer. Your wife is not in subjection to you, but rather in subjection to them. In bondage to the doctrines of men. In reality, she is not even in subjection to Jesus Christ.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

I will pray for you my friend and ask God for wisdom on your behalf.

Come against that spirit of control and manipulation. You are feeling the spirit of witchcraft against you and your wife is bewitched by her religious leaders. Think seriously about fasting. This is a battle for the mind and right thinking regarding God's Word versus wrong thinking. Pray and fast that the Lord opens your wife's "eyes" and removes the scales of doctrines of men.

I'm sure we will all be praying for you and believe that God will deliver you and your family so you and your wife can have a healthy relationship with God through Jesus Christ and NOT through Men and that your Boys will have a proper understanding of walking with God and being a Christian.

Rick

Mark · 08-03-2009, 12:29 PM

Hi Rick,

You have hit the nail right on the head. I spoke with the Pastor several months ago when I had decided to leave the church. He was very attentive and let me explain myself and what I was finding to be unscriptural. He didn't get mad. He encouraged me to still come if nothing else but for the worship service.
I had stayed in touch with them through some of the churches "outside" functions (cookouts, birthdays, etc.) and they never brought anything up when I was there, so they respected me in that manner. They just left Friday to go back to their "home" church because this one wasn't big enough to spport them financially (here we go with the tithing thing!), so now there will be new Pastor coming in to take over. This is another issue that my wife has is the insecurity of the church changing leadership so often(this will be the 3rd Pastor in 8 years), so her troubles are multiplied. That makes things even more sensitive.
Anyway, thank you for your prayers. I too will be doing more of that and possibly fasting soon. I appreciate everything you have said and value your advice. Thank you my friend. God bless.

sheep wrecked · 08-03-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:Rick:
Have you talked with the Pastor and Elders about the fact that they should counsel your wife to follow you even if they believe you are wrong? And not to do so, is rebellion against God's Word.

I am having some difficulty with this. Are you saying that a wife must follow her husband no matter what he believes? Even if it is to spiritual destruction? Huh

heb13-13 · 08-03-2009, 03:58 PM

(08-03-2009 01:26 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:
Quote:Rick:
Have you talked with the Pastor and Elders about the fact that they should counsel your wife to follow you even if they believe you are wrong? And not to do so, is rebellion against God's Word.

I am having some difficulty with this. Are you saying that a wife must follow her husband no matter what he believes? Even if it is to spiritual destruction?

Well, if he believes in adultery and physical abuse. NO. God's Word makes provision for that.

In 1 Pet 3:1, God's Word makes provision also for the Husband that is not obeying the Word.

1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
1Pe 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

I believe in "STANDING for your MARRIAGE". The Church divorce rates are now higher than the LOST. Why is that?

These links explain more of what I mean to STAND FOR YOUR MARRIAGE.
http://www.rejoiceministries.org/ <-- These guys are Wonderful!!

128 pages of testimonies of people that were blessed by Rejoice Ministries and STOOD for their MARRIAGE and God brought healing and restoration. This is what the Church should be teaching today!

If you know of any Christian marriages in trouble, refer them to this link.

A quote from their other website: http://www.stopdivorce.org

With a skyrocketing divorce rate, and people advising abandoned and hurting spouses to, "Get on with your life," our goal is to introduce you to what God can do for a broken marriage, even when only one spouse takes a stand for marriage restoration, instead of being resigned to divorce.!

I don't agree with their stand on tithing. I always try to eat the chicken and spit out the bones.