Worship Music

[Mark]

Hi All!

I wanted to open a new thread regarding worship music. Since I was a child, music has had a major role in my life. I grew up with mny different musical genres in our home (country, rock, pop, easy listening, vocal, etc.) Music became a way for me to express myself and was also a comfort to me. Not growing up in a church-going family, I didn't get much exposure to Christian/Prasie and Worship music. After I started my walk with God, my music interested changed from the music I listened to "in the world" to music tha lifted up the name of Jesus. I absolutely love music and especially good praise and worship music. I listen to all kinds form Southern Gospel to Contemporary Christian.
My question is, if there are bands that play wonderful Jesus centered music, but may have different beliefs (meaning they may be Baptist, Oneness, Evangelical, etc.) do you think it is still okay to listen to their music? I have a large collection of music with everythin from Phillips, Craig, & Dean and Michael W. Smith to Selah and Third Day. I know that they are from different backgrounds of faith, but their music is just wonderful. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Can anyone share what music they listen to? I thought it would be a fun topic.

[heb13-13]

Mark!!! I cannot believe you started this thread.

You are much nicer than me.

Because I was going to start a thread called, "God is My Girlfriend", regarding today's Christian music.

This is probably an offshoot of what you want to talk about and maybe I will start a thread called, "The Feminization of Christianity" which would cover much of today's repetitive music with their inane lyrics.

Christian music is definitely being "dumbed down". When I want to hear music, I want to hear music that "moves" me. Today's music certainly does MOVE me,,, to turn it off!!

Here is a quotable quote.
"We are the most educated Christians in history, and yet our lyrics are considerably stupider than our much less educated Christian forebears—the people who sang lyrics by Fanny Crosby or Charles Wesley or Isaac Watts"?
*Regent College professor John Stackhouse

[sheep wrecked]

(08-01-2009 01:39 PM)Mark Wrote:  Hi All!

I wanted to open a new thread regarding worship music. Since I was a child, music has had a major role in my life. I grew up with mny different musical genres in our home (country, rock, pop, easy listening, vocal, etc.) Music became a way for me to express myself and was also a comfort to me. Not growing up in a church-going family, I didn't get much exposure to Christian/Prasie and Worship music. After I started my walk with God, my music interested changed from the music I listened to "in the world" to music tha lifted up the name of Jesus. I absolutely love music and especially good praise and worship music. I listen to all kinds form Southern Gospel to Contemporary Christian.
My question is, if there are bands that play wonderful Jesus centered music, but may have different beliefs (meaning they may be Baptist, Oneness, Evangelical, etc.) do you think it is still okay to listen to their music? I have a large collection of music with everythin from Phillips, Craig, & Dean and Michael W. Smith to Selah and Third Day. I know that they are from different backgrounds of faith, but their music is just wonderful. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Can anyone share what music they listen to? I thought it would be a fun topic.

I listen to all kinds of Christian music, but particularly within the contemporary venue. Although I don't mind a hymn or two. Many of the artists today have done a nice job on some of the older hymns I grew up with and it's always nice to hear them occasionally.

I have christian radio on most of the time. There are songs that bug me of course. I tend to listen to the words and if they don't line up with Scripture I turn them off.

Over that past several years I have also questioned the validity of christian music due to the theological emphasis and the back ground of the musicians, artists, and songwriters. I have not really come to a satisfactory resolution, to be honest - other than I don't like secular music of any sort.

There was a time a few years ago when I stopped listening to christian music totally, because I was convinced of the evil associations and "root" of christian music - I am speaking of the music itself, not the words. And of course you can find plenty of sites on the net that do the shout and twist on that whole thing! What was kind of funny, when I went through all that, and doing some research, is that no matter what kind of music you enjoy, it all has "evil roots". So what is a person to do?

Is music in and of itself "evil"? We know that God inspired David to write songs and poems. And Paul mentions to sing spiritual songs and hymns in the NT and we read about the songs we will be singing in Heaven in Rev. So how does one find balance?

Just because a Christian group uses drums, electric guitars and basses and rocks out songs, does that mean they are evil? Is it wrong to use Christian music that glorifies the Lord and is based on scripture if an artist has wrong theology? Many hymns were written based on old bar room music

Enough of my rambling. Hopefully thought provoking anyway! And I am enjoying Christian music fully every day. I think I give up trying to figure it out. If I worship God from my heart when I sing along with the songs, then .....................

I love Third Day, Jeremy Camp, Christy Nockels [Watermark], Chris Tomlin, David Crowder, Matt Redman, Petra, Michael W Smith, Steven Curtis Chapman, Philips-Craig-Dean, etc. So many it would take me all day to list them!!!

Some of my favorite top "ten" songs:

A Heart Like Mine - Bryan Duncan
Satisfied in You - Russ Lee
Borne - Not By Sight
Amazing Grace - Chris Tomlin

I love talking about music - so "bring it on" - another cool song by Steven Curtis Chapman

[sheep wrecked]

(08-01-2009 02:50 PM)heb13-13 Wrote:  Mark!!! I cannot believe you started this thread.

You are much nicer than me.

Because I was going to start a thread called, "God is My Girlfriend", regarding today's Christian music.

This is probably an offshoot of what you want to talk about and maybe I will start a thread called, "The Feminization of Christianity" which would cover much of today's repetitive music with their inane lyrics.

Christian music is definitely being "dumbed down". When I want to hear music, I want to hear music that "moves" me. Today's music certainly does MOVE me,,, to turn it off!!

Here is a quotable quote.
"We are the most educated Christians in history, and yet our lyrics are considerably stupider than our much less educated Christian forebears—the people who sang lyrics by Fanny Crosby or Charles Wesley or Isaac Watts"?
*Regent College professor John Stackhouse

Ok - here's your chance to let er rip


Now, I have to ask what songs are "dumbed down" and "inane music"? I am not arguing wit y'all, and I have heard this before, but I must be traveling in different musical venues are you talking about charis music where a song is sung over and over again to "usher in the presence of God". gak

This is the first I have heard of the "feminization" of Christianity in christian music? Help

ps: some of the wesley, watts, and crosby songs are dispensationalist. yuppers!

[Mark]

Glad this thread is getting some contact! I agree that there are a lot of artists out there that are singing "Christian" music now because it has gotten a lot more acceptable adn there is quite a large market for it now. In other words, some are "Christian" now because there is the chance if making some dough. My case in point are the country artists liek Carrie Underwood whow sang "Jesus Take The Wheel" and talked about her "Christianity" openly. Then, when the money started to roll in she began to let her true colors show and began singing about being a jealous girlfriend and slashing the tires of his "4 wheel drive" and then taking it further by singing about a one-night-stand and no even knowing "his last name". Yikes!! Whhere did the "Christian" Carrie go????
But I digress. I love most of what I hear for Christian music. I don't care for the heavier music or the hip-hop. PC&D are probably my favorit (even though all 3 are Oneness preachers). Their music absolutely touches my heart. I believe that they are sincere with their worship of Jesus. Selah as well. Michael W. Smith has put out some really good worship music as well as Don Moen.
So, I believe that as long as I am worship God when I listen and sing along, it doesn't matter what the singers may believe as long as they are not "preaching another gospel" in their songs. So, keep the posts rolling. I love talking music!

[heb13-13]

(08-01-2009 09:59 PM)Mark Wrote:  So, I believe that as long as I am worship God when I listen and sing along, it doesn't matter what the singers may believe as long as they are not "preaching another gospel" in their songs. So, keep the posts rolling. I love talking music!

I am sure you guys know more about music than me. I like a lot of the songs from the 70s during the Jesus People era. Hardly ever hear any of those songs on radio anymore. I grew up in California a lot and in the 70s used to go to 3-4 day Christian concerts where we all camped out and met a ton of people during the concert breaks. "Festival of the Son" was a big one in Northern California. We used to witness on the streets of Berkeley and San Francisco. My best friend was one of the original hippies that hung out at Haight/Ashbury. He got glorious saved out of all of that mess. We have a lot of funny stories witnessing to people on the streets. Lot of good stories and some scary ones, too. Seems like so many years ago. Stories for another time.

Anyway, I also like many of the old hymns. I guess I like them because many of them were born out of persecution and have a lot of meaning to them.

There is a lot of good Christian music out there, I know, but a lot of mindless drivel, too. My kids and especially my wife are most knowledgeable about some of the new music. I don't pay much attention, but when I do, I don't like too much that I hear. I will try to get some of these songs that I am talking about and post them just so you can see what I am talking about.

But my wife also shares my opinion about the old songs (70s) and the hymns, too. Just the other night, we sat and went through a hymn book and just sang a bunch of songs that we knew and worshipped the Lord. I love "And Can It Be". That is a great song with a lot of meaning. They can sing that at my funeral and top it off with a good dancing song cuz I'll be dancing.

My wife used to go to a weekly Leonard Ravenhill prayer meeting at Last Days Ministries when Keith Green and Kelly Willard were around. Her parents got saved during that time in the 70s and started a church right there in their living room that grew to 85 or so people. She has very fond memories of those times. Always someone coming over, for fellowship, meals and just singing and praising the Lord.

Things have changed sooooo much. I think there is so much more deception, and making merchandise of the Saints, today and of course the Word tells us "that evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse". Truly, the love of many is waxing cold, also.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Anyway, Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say Rejoice!

---

(08-02-2009 12:01 AM)heb13-13 Wrote:  

(08-01-2009 09:59 PM)Mark Wrote:  So, I believe that as long as I am worship God when I listen and sing along, it doesn't matter what the singers may believe as long as they are not "preaching another gospel" in their songs. So, keep the posts rolling. I love talking music!

Can't believe I forgot this one. I love Scripture songs. Every scripture song I ever learned is marked in my Bible. Sometimes I will go to fellowships or some type of Christian gathering and it seems that everyone wants to always sing some kind of Christian Contemporary song and I rarely hear scripture songs anymore. I guess one reason is that everyone has a different Bible, today. Most of these songs only work with the KJV.

Ok, here are some I cannot stand!!

1. Trading My Sorrows
2. Draw Me Close - "I'd lay it all down again/ To hear you say that I'm your friend", "You are my desire/ No one else will do/ Cause nothing else could take your place/ To feel the warmth of your embrace."

What in the world does this mean!! This is a song for a girlfriend, but I guess the women love it.

3. Come, Now is the Time to Worship
Repetitive and then at a certain point everyone has to whisper, "Come".

4. Your Love is Extravagant
"Spread wide in the arms of Christ/ Is the love that covers sin."

5. Jesus Flow Like a River
6. Let the River Flow
7. Dance in the River

Almost anything with River in it. What in the world is the River?

8. Could Sing of Your Love Forever Here
9. Heart of Worship
10. Holiness
11. Shout to the Lord
12. Shine Jesus, Shine
13. Coming Back to the Heart of Worship

Look at the words to these songs and you will see what I mean.

I'm sorry, I just can't sing any of these. Once in a while, when I visit a church I look around at the women and they just eat these up but when I look at the men, it looks kind of forced. This is what I mean by "God Is My Girlfriend" songs.

People think worship is singing but it really isn't. Jesus was not talking to the Samaritan woman about SINGING. Biblically, we should be singing to God to praise him, yes, but also to build each other up (cf. Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16).

I don't like songs which don't have good theology, and don't make any sense. Today's songs are meant to work people up in their emotions so in the final analysis the experience comes from music and not how they really feel about God. It makes people think that they are experiencing God when they are "worshipping", and they will tell you they were touched by God and yet there is no real change in their lives. It is actually a form of idolatry.

Lets see some that you have come across.

[Strefanash]

(08-01-2009 01:39 PM)Mark Wrote:  Hi All!

I wanted to open a new thread regarding worship music.
My question is, if there are bands that play wonderful Jesus centered music, but may have different beliefs (meaning they may be Baptist, Oneness, Evangelical, etc.) do you think it is still okay to listen to their music?

I am classically trained, once a professional bass player, with a degree in music theory, B.Mus. Anything outside the classical repertoire essentially bores me to death (though there are exceptions . . )

I take the example of Paul in the meat market. Dont ask what god's it was sacrificed to, simply enjoy it. What matters is your freedom of conscience and your attitude to te music partaken of.

As for me I simply cannot abide any contemporary christian music, and I dislike the old hymns due to associations with church stodge.

But for me a the Bruckner's Te Deum, or a Beethoven symphony, or any Bach, or even any good music is to me an expression of my worship to the Holy and Terrible. I dont need to pay attention to the fact that Mozart was a Freemason, or that Bach and Handel both had vile tempers whereby Bach spent time in the town jail for arguing with his employers the city council, or that Handel was nearly killed in a sword duel and likely poisoned himself to death with lead poisoning from the preservative used in wines at that time (he was an ENORMOUS eater and drinker). And I can overlook that Beethoven was some kind of vague deist freethinker who thought all men were brothers

These things, the music they wrote, are the gift of God to be sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If you are uplifted by it in prayer by all means go for it. Don't be bullied by weak consciences and pharisees wo think that certain genres must be sin because at the root of it all they dislike them. you find certain chords bothersome? you will likely find them in Beethoven. I kid you not

As for the words, most of my favourite music has them in latin or german, or Russian so i can ignore them, and a good thing too for most of whayt men siong about is nonsense, and why should I bother with the words when the harmony melody etc is enough for me. besides the diction of singers these days is so poor how can you follow them anyway?

BTW having once heard an alleged example of backward masking I am confident there is no such thing, the idea is superstitious

[Mark]

Ok, here are some I cannot stand!!

1. Trading My Sorrows
2. Draw Me Close - "I'd lay it all down again/ To hear you say that I'm your friend", "You are my desire/ No one else will do/ Cause nothing else could take your place/ To feel the warmth of your embrace."

What in the world does this mean!! This is a song for a girlfriend, but I guess the women love it.

3. Come, Now is the Time to Worship
Repetitive and then at a certain point everyone has to whisper, "Come".

4. Your Love is Extravagant
"Spread wide in the arms of Christ/ Is the love that covers sin."

5. Jesus Flow Like a River
6. Let the River Flow
7. Dance in the River

Almost anything with River in it. What in the world is the River?

8. Could Sing of Your Love Forever Here
9. Heart of Worship
10. Holiness
11. Shout to the Lord
12. Shine Jesus, Shine
13. Coming Back to the Heart of Worship

Look at the words to these songs and you will see what I mean.

I'm sorry, I just can't sing any of these. Once in a while, when I visit a church I look around at the women and they just eat these up but when I look at the men, it looks kind of forced. This is what I mean by "God Is My Girlfriend" songs.

People think worship is singing but it really isn't. Jesus was not talking to the Samaritan woman about SINGING. Biblically, we should be singing to God to praise him, yes, but also to build each other up (cf. Ephesians 5:19, Colossians 3:16).

I don't like songs which don't have good theology, and don't make any sense. Today's songs are meant to work people up in their emotions so in the final analysis the experience comes from music and not how they really feel about God. It makes people think that they are experiencing God when they are "worshipping", and they will tell you they were touched by God and yet there is no real change in their lives. It is actually a form of idolatry.

Lets see some that you have come across.
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[/quote]
[/quote]


Hi!

You are not going to believe it (or maybe you will) but just about every song you listed here that you dislike are all ones that I absolutely love. I guess I can see a little of what you mean about the "love song" thing, but to me they express love either to or from Jesus and it absolutely touches me. Call me a softy. There is just something about them that really draws me into them and draws out of me feelings for Christ that I sometimes have a hard time expressing. I think they are beautiful and I love the lyrics. I look at them as poetry too.
I guess it's good that everyone has different tastes. It would be pretty boring if we all liked the same things. I love many of the old hymns and spiritual songs too. I have a few CDs with scriture songs on them where they have taken psalms or verses from the bible and put them to music. They are wonderful as well.
So anyway, thanks for the post and I hope you aren't too disappointed that I like the songs you can't stand. Have a great day!

[heb13-13]

(08-02-2009 08:30 AM)Mark Wrote:  Ok, here are some I cannot stand!!

So anyway, thanks for the post and I hope you aren't too disappointed that I like the songs you can't stand. Have a great day![/color]

Well, we don't fellowship with people based on musical tastes. I know the world hangs out with people based on this, though, but we shouldn't.

Regarding what Stref, said about classical music: my kids play piano and acoustic guitar and we have a lot of classical music "in the air", and I think that has given me an appreciation for good composition.

Anyway, music is not really my forte, but just like we all have culinary tastes, I know what I like and I know what I don't like.

I'm glad we are not CLONES. Life would be boring and there would be no need for this FORUM because we would already know about each other.

[Mark]

(08-02-2009 01:32 AM)Strefanash Wrote:  

(08-01-2009 01:39 PM)Mark Wrote:  Hi All!

I wanted to open a new thread regarding worship music.
My question is, if there are bands that play wonderful Jesus centered music, but may have different beliefs (meaning they may be Baptist, Oneness, Evangelical, etc.) do you think it is still okay to listen to their music?

I am classically trained, once a professional bass player, with a degree in music theory, B.Mus. Anything outside the classical repertoire essentially bores me to death (though there are exceptions . . )

I take the example of Paul in the meat market. Dont ask what god's it was sacrificed to, simply enjoy it. What matters is your freedom of conscience and your attitude to te music partaken of.

As for me I simply cannot abide any contemporary christian music, and I dislike the old hymns due to associations with church stodge.

But for me a the Bruckner's Te Deum, or a Beethoven symphony, or any Bach, or even any good music is to me an expression of my worship to the Holy and Terrible. I dont need to pay attention to the fact that Mozart was a Freemason, or that Bach and Handel both had vile tempers whereby Bach spent time in the town jail for arguing with his employers the city council, or that Handel was nearly killed in a sword duel and likely poisoned himself to death with lead poisoning from the preservative used in wines at that time (he was an ENORMOUS eater and drinker). And I can overlook that Beethoven was some kind of vague deist freethinker who thought all men were brothers

These things, the music they wrote, are the gift of God to be sanctified by the word of God and prayer. If you are uplifted by it in prayer by all means go for it. Don't be bullied by weak consciences and pharisees wo think that certain genres must be sin because at the root of it all they dislike them. you find certain chords bothersome? you will likely find them in Beethoven. I kid you not

As for the words, most of my favourite music has them in latin or german, or Russian so i can ignore them, and a good thing too for most of whayt men siong about is nonsense, and why should I bother with the words when the harmony melody etc is enough for me. besides the diction of singers these days is so poor how can you follow them anyway?

BTW having once heard an alleged example of backward masking I am confident there is no such thing, the idea is superstitious

Hi!

I love Mozart too! I love his piano concertos ( nos. 20 & 21 especially)and his 4 horn concertos. He was definitely a gifted composer. The sheer quantity of music he wrote during his short lifetime is mind-boggling. Bach is also a composer I really enjoy. I'm not really big on opera, but classical music is so relaxing. I like having it on while I read the bible. I seem to focus better. Thanks for the post!