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sheep wrecked · 09-06-2009, 03:32 PM

(09-05-2009 10:14 PM)Mary Wrote: Is a severe migraine for a week and a sinus infection an excuse for forgetting these?? and for forgetting at least one incident of intervention?? I was driving alone to a meeting one night when a car crossed over into my lane and headed straight at me. I felt two strong arms wrench the wheel from me, and the next thing I knew I was on the verge and safely stopped, and the presence left my car. It is not too hard to think of other examples and even gentle "ministering" times in my life, from "entertaining angels unawares".
But I struggle with the verse I quoted when I think of abused children, particularly a child who had been prayed for, but then was tethered and confined by her parents for her first 8 or so years. Then, when discovered, spent time in a reasonable foster home, but then was placed in an institution where she remains today as an adult with severe mental illness. I know that God knows her and what happened to her - but her story raises more questions than answers for me: about our hearts when we pray, about loving our neighbour and community responsibility; about why "her angels" didn't or took a long time to intervene...

I think many of us have experienced what we know to be God's hand directly preventing a tragedy, and more than likely through His angels. Again, it would be according to His will for His purpose, because many people who love the Lord are not prevented from accidents and life threatening situations. I think of Paul particularly who went through tremendous peril and survived by the grace of God, yet was martyred as were the other apostles [except for John].

I do not believe it is up to God to "rescue" people, no matter how many people pray or have faith that He will intercede. Life is what it is. We live in a cursed world where bad things will happen to both believers and unbelievers and to innocent children. God never guaranteed He would rescue us, but would be with us to see us through. When He does deliver us, it is by His grace and mercy alone - reiterating - for His purpose, not because we prayed or believed. Always ..... it is according to HIS will.

Joh 16:33 These things have I spoken unto you, that in me ye may have peace. In the world ye have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

grafted · 09-09-2009, 05:32 PM

(09-06-2009 03:32 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:
(09-05-2009 10:14 PM)Mary Wrote: Is a severe migraine for a week and a sinus infection an excuse for forgetting these?? and for forgetting at least one incident of intervention?? I was driving alone to a meeting one night when a car crossed over into my lane and headed straight at me. I felt two strong arms wrench the wheel from me, and the next thing I knew I was on the verge and safely stopped, and the presence left my car. It is not too hard to think of other examples and even gentle "ministering" times in my life, from "entertaining angels unawares".
But I struggle with the verse I quoted when I think of abused children, particularly a child who had been prayed for, but then was tethered and confined by her parents for her first 8 or so years. Then, when discovered, spent time in a reasonable foster home, but then was placed in an institution where she remains today as an adult with severe mental illness. I know that God knows her and what happened to her - but her story raises more questions than answers for me: about our hearts when we pray, about loving our neighbour and community responsibility; about why "her angels" didn't or took a long time to intervene...

I think many of us have experienced what we know to be God's hand directly preventing a tragedy, and more than likely through His angels. Again, it would be according to His will for His purpose, because many people who love the Lord are not prevented from accidents and life threatening situations. I think of Paul particularly who went through tremendous peril and survived by the grace of God, yet was martyred as were the other apostles [except for John].

I do not believe it is up to God to "rescue" people, no matter how many people pray or have faith that He will intercede. Life is what it is. We live in a cursed world where bad things will happen to both believers and unbelievers and to innocent children. God never guaranteed He would rescue us, but would be with us to see us through. When He does deliver us, it is by His grace and mercy alone - reiterating - for His purpose, not because we prayed or believed. Always ..... it is according to HIS will.

Joh 16:33 These things have I spoken unto you, that in me ye may have peace. In the world ye have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Doesn't that do away with anything we ask for in his name he will do?

sheep wrecked · 09-09-2009, 06:13 PM

(09-09-2009 05:32 PM)grafted Wrote: Doesn't that do away with anything we ask for in his name he will do?

Does God give us everything and anything we ask for when we pray in Jesus' Name? The answer is "no". Therefore, it is human error to assume that God is going to give just because we ask. We need to search the Scriptures to discover what His truth is, not man's ideas.

grafted · 09-10-2009, 09:24 AM

That makes me wonder if he ever said no to any of the apostles. If that answer is no, then we are definitely doing something wrong, if the answer is yes, then at what point were they outside of his will?

sheep wrecked · 09-10-2009, 03:05 PM

(09-10-2009 09:24 AM)grafted Wrote: That makes me wonder if he ever said no to any of the apostles. If that answer is no, then we are definitely doing something wrong, if the answer is yes, then at what point were they outside of his will?

I think that is the wrong question. Maybe the question should be, what did Jesus mean when He said the disciples would receive what they asked for in His Name? Why do we assume that Jesus meant physical needs, money, job, etc? What if He meant something different? The context of John 14 is extremely important.

We already know that Paul did not received what he asked for and God said His mercy was sufficient. Are you implying that Paul was doing something wrong or outside God's will?

As has been stated, we pray according to God's will. That does not mean what people pray for makes them "outside of God's will".

grafted · 09-10-2009, 07:19 PM

No one is perfect so yes, even they have stepped outside the boundaries.

sheep wrecked · (This post was last modified: 09-10-2009 08:37 PM by sheep wrecked.)

(09-10-2009 07:19 PM)grafted Wrote: No one is perfect so yes, even they have stepped outside the boundaries.

What boundaries? What does being perfect have to do with this? Questionmark

grafted · 09-11-2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:Are you implying that Paul was doing something wrong or outside God's will?

Quote:What boundaries? What does being perfect have to do with this?

sheep wrecked · 09-11-2009, 05:20 PM

(09-11-2009 01:24 PM)grafted Wrote:
Quote:Are you implying that Paul was doing something wrong or outside God's will?

Quote:What boundaries? What does being perfect have to do with this?

Please forgive me, but you have totally lost me. Are we even in the same ballpark? Sign0009