Turn the other cheek, or pull out the sword?

[heb13-13]

I appreciate your exchanges too, Pilgrim.

I have hunted also, but do not own any weapons right now. I was a pretty good shot in my time and enjoyed hunting. The meat is great. Elk makes great chili meat.

They were coming into Jerusalem and things were going to get hostile. Up until this time, Jesus carried on most of His ministry outside of Jerusalem where there was not much hostility. Now, He is not only coming into Jerusalem but coming in and being heralded as a King in a type of parade.

Things are going to heat up real fast not only for Him but for his disciples. Up unto now, things were more friendly but that was about to change, drastically. So, maybe this was the time to purchase these things. I cannot help but be drawn to Luke 22:37 about being numbered with the transgressors.

Being attacked and persecuted for Christ's sake is pretty straightforward in the Word. Getting broken into by a crack addict is not.

I met a Pastor from Uganda once that had his church building attacked by Muslims and the people were attacked as well. He strongly believed in fighting back and injuring if need be. That was the first time my beliefs about not fighting back when being persecuted for Christ's sake were challenged by someone's reality of it actually happening. We are definitely in a bubble in America. I see that changing real fast. I think Christians today, are the Jews of the 1940's with regard to the coming persecution.

I think we may still be at ground zero in our discussion, but it has been interesting. :-)

[Pilgrim]

(09-12-2009 12:19 PM)heb13-13 Wrote:  I think we may still be at ground zero in our discussion, but it has been interesting. :-)

Perhaps we are. I am going to be doing my own search for awhile on this topic, may come back to it. Read some material by Tertullian but got pretty confused. Going back to it shortly.

I hear what you are saying about 17th and 18th century writings. They had an 'axe to grind' as well as trying to get the truth out (as they saw it).

Thx again.

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."

Albert Einstein

[heb13-13]

(09-13-2009 09:50 PM)Pilgrim Wrote:  

(09-12-2009 12:19 PM)heb13-13 Wrote:  I think we may still be at ground zero in our discussion, but it has been interesting. :-)

Perhaps we are. I am going to be doing my own search for awhile on this topic, may come back to it. Read some material by Tertullian but got pretty confused. Going back to it shortly.

I hear what you are saying about 17th and 18th century writings. They had an 'axe to grind' as well as trying to get the truth out (as they saw it).

Thx again.

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."

Albert Einstein

Pilgrim, here is some more food for thought. I came across this on Michael Pearl's website, nogreaterjoy.org

In his "Answers" section he received this question in the mail.

By: Michael PearlDecember 2007
I have a question concerning self defense in the home and while "out and about" with my children. My husband wants me to get a conceal-and-carry license and to carry a small handgun.

I am in somewhat of a turmoil as I want to obey my husband and of course I want to protect my children. Do I have a right biblically though to protect my kids with force? Also, should Christians go off to war and fight? What about “Thou shalt not kill?” Thank you for any help you might give me.

Michael answers:

Christians should be entirely pacifists in the face of legally-sanctioned persecution. If the government comes after Believers for their faith in Christ, we should be entirely non-resistant, as it says in Romans 13. Likewise, if a Christian is living in a land dominated by another religion, as is the case with 100,000 believers living in Iraq, and the Muslim religion were to launch a campaign of persecution against Christians, we should again practice staunch non-violence.

But, if a believer is appointed by his government to bear the sword, as is the case with a soldier or policeman, then he is the arm of God’s justice and should practice violence as is necessary, and no more. If a believer is the object of attempted random assault by a crazed dopehead or an evil man controlled by Satan, he is not at liberty before God to be non-resistant. He must defend himself, his family, and any other innocent party of which he is capable. Self-defense is sanctioned under the laws God gave to Israel and no where in the New Testament does God revoke the duty to self defense.

We have a Mennonite neighbor who practiced non-resistance under all circumstances. Some evil men found out about it and came into his home demanding to take sexual liberties with all his daughters. He did not resist but gave them his younger daughters as well. The men returned. His daughters became pregnant and bore little bastards. No man ever wanted them for wives. He stood by and watched the evil men strip and rape his daughters. It destroyed the family. They had to move so as to cease being used by evil men at their will. He was a fool. His doctrine was of the Devil. He should have risen up in righteous wrath and slain the enemy, like Joshua of old.

I have been struck and pushed and cursed for the gospel’s sake. I have had my life threatened several times. I have been non-resistant in all cases, but when I came across a man raping a woman in the woods, I reached for my pistol and saved her life. To this day she is thankful that I was not a pacifist. She didn’t need a spectator; she needed a deliverer.

The doctrine of pacifism is a selfish doctrine of weak men who are not led by the Spirit and are seeking salvation in their own sacrifice. I will have no part of it.

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/letters/ques.../pacifism/

By the way he has a great series on Galatians.

He is also of Jewish descent.

Here is is intro about it. I think the admins will find it interesting, too, although they probably know everything there is to know about the subject.

"No book is more needed in our day. Learn why Biblical Sabbath keeping, whether it be Saturday, Sunday, or Tuesday, and the movement to adopt Jewish worship is not the will of God for the Church. Many professing Christians who don’t have a personal relationship with Christ are seeking meaning in Rabbinical Judaism, keeping feast days and Sabbaths and resorting to using Hebrew words for God and Jesus. Many are “falling from grace” in their attempt to give the Law of Moses a place in their daily lives."