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***Vic*** · 12-08-2009, 07:59 PM

Rick, it's time to deal with your false accusations, putting words and beliefs in our mouths that aren't ours, twisting what we say to change what we mean, being double minded and contradictory and your total disrespect towards us that is waxing worse from thread to thread.

heb13-13 post #24

Quote:Joel says the Spirit shall be poured out upon all flesh, not on Jews only but upon Gentiles (is my contention per the Word of God). In Christ there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, Rom. 10:11, 12.

As I stated clearly---the Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh-to those who believe Jesus Christ. But the Joel verses also speak directly to Israel concerning their "sons and daughters." You seem incapable of seeing more than what you want it to say. It says "all flesh"-meaning all mankind-- and then also says "your" sons and daughters which in the prior verse was speaking to Israel. How can someone so hepped up on thinking they are here to teach us, be so unable to understand such a simple concept? We have written about these issues in many threads--we get it. But apparently you don't.

You cannot seem to comprehend that we get that the Holy Spirit is in every believer and yet it is something stated time and again by myself and others on this forum and in my writings. As far as Cornelius receiving the Holy Spirit in front of Peter--it was to confirm the vision of the sheet about the clean and unclean and that all -Gentiles and Jews--who come to Christ will be filled with the Holy Spirit---by God's doing. It never was about the apostles abilities but God working through them to confirm they belonged to Him and were His witnesses. Paul wrote:

2Co 12:11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing. 12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Your attempt to make it appear we worship them---is a lie and false accusation which you need to deal with. It seems a pattern when people can't answer direct questions or abide the Scriptures or actually prove what they say--they have to sink to false accusations and attacks.

Get over yourself Rick. You are neither a teacher/evangelist/apostle/ or pastor to us. You came on here with the attitude of spamming your beliefs and you were given much more lattitude than most, in order to see who you really were. You speak of the need for humbleness and willingness to change our beliefs---and yet you would never consider you might be wrong, and change yours would you?. Your arrogance is seeping through in your personal attacks. Think about it.

Every single person that belongs to Jesus Christ receives the Holy Spirit. Not by a ritual, not by laying on of hands, not by having to be in the company of someone else, but in faith believing who Jesus Christ is. The evidence of that faith is NOT speaking in tongues. That was a limited and very specific happening. In fact, even when Peter and the apostles were speaking to the 3000 plus, they were told to repent and:

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

What? The gift of the Holy Ghost and no mention of tongues? Why? what was wrong with Peter?

1 Corinthians 12:28-31 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. 29. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? 30. Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31. But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Quote:I do not believe that miracles working in someone's life validates them as a true Believer. Jesus said, "These things will follow them that believe", He did not say, "These things will confirm and validate my children".

With all this said, there is no substitute for fruit. But, this is still not an argument for cutting out portions of God’s Word.

You contradict your own statements. Either those things in Mark 16--which you have stated apply to all believers---are to be exhibited by all believers--or you are wrong, and as the Scriptures prove---the apostles' witness was confirmed by these very things. Now we have proven that the Scriptures show the apostles did those things and more, yet there is no record in the Sciptures of others doing that list. So let me ask a rhetorical question. If you say it's in the Scriptures that all believers will have those signs and wonders follow them--and you admit to not having all those signs and wonders following you--you don't have that gifting---what Scripture is it that says there's an out clause for that list? Because there isn't one. The apostles could take the 'giftings' list from Corinthians and have it applied to them---because they were given great power and works to confirm their witness of Christ. However, the giftings of the Holy Spirit to do God's will, and necessity of signs and wonders to confirm believers is not mentioned after them. Yes---the Corinthians were all hepped up and seeking after tongues and prophesy and sign gifts --and Paul said they were carnal-living for the flesh because they were doing it for the experience and the feelings---instead of understanding what it meant to live for Jesus Christ. And simply desire to serve Him. And to do things to edify others--as God led. You keep mixing up the promised gift of the Holy Spirit to all who believe, and the 'giftings' given by the Holy Spirit for the edification of others as He wills. Those spiritual gifts are used by Him through us for the edification of the Body.

Romans 8:9-17 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.