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Denominationalism
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11-22-2009, 03:30 AM
Post: #21
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RE: Denominationalism
(11-22-2009 03:22 AM)Mary Wrote:(11-22-2009 02:21 AM)rancherforChrist Wrote: Chris, Well done Chris, you have avoided supplying supporting scriptures for your words and also answering my questions. I am not deflected - can you be honest enough to answer them? [/quote] Mary, Can you be Christlike enough to even be nice? That would be refreshing. Love ya, Chris |
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11-22-2009, 04:44 AM
Post: #22
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RE: Denominationalism
(11-22-2009 03:30 AM)rancherforChrist Wrote:(11-22-2009 03:22 AM)Mary Wrote:(11-22-2009 02:21 AM)rancherforChrist Wrote: Chris, Mary, Can you be Christlike enough to even be nice? That would be refreshing. Love ya, Chris [/quote] Chris, consider this a verbal whipping, as when Christ was angry with the frauds and thieves in the temple. Would I be nice letting you continue in your error and also allowing others who might be deceived by you to go on to hell? Actually according to the original meaning of nice, which is "precise, exact" I am being nice. You don't love me Chris, and you do not love Jesus. Phillipians 4:23 "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." |
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11-22-2009, 12:51 PM
Post: #23
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RE: Denominationalism
Chris, consider this a verbal whipping, as when Christ was angry with the frauds and thieves in the temple. Would I be nice letting you continue in your error and also allowing others who might be deceived by you to go on to hell?
Actually according to the original meaning of nice, which is "precise, exact" I am being nice. You don't love me Chris, and you do not love Jesus. [/quote] Lord Jesus, thank You for Mary. Lord, please give her what she needs. Whatever Jesus I have in me, whatever treasures I have in heaven, please spend it all on her. It doesn't matter how much it costs me or how much it hurts me, please fill her up with Your Holy Spirit, pressed down, shaken together and running over, in the name if Jesus, amen. I do love you Mary and so does Jesus. |
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11-22-2009, 03:01 PM
Post: #24
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RE: Denominationalism
(11-22-2009 12:51 PM)rancherforChrist Wrote: Chris, consider this a verbal whipping, as when Christ was angry with the frauds and thieves in the temple. Would I be nice letting you continue in your error and also allowing others who might be deceived by you to go on to hell? Lord Jesus, thank You for Mary. Lord, please give her what she needs. Whatever Jesus I have in me, whatever treasures I have in heaven, please spend it all on her. It doesn't matter how much it costs me or how much it hurts me, please fill her up with Your Holy Spirit, pressed down, shaken together and running over, in the name if Jesus, amen. I do love you Mary and so does Jesus. [/quote] And you still avoid the questions. And now add manipulation to dishonesty. Phillipians 4:23 "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." |
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11-22-2009, 04:14 PM
Post: #25
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RE: Denominationalism
Hi Vicki,
I've read some of the responses that you posted. I know you have a lot of questions and have quoted many scriptures, as have others here. I totally believe all those scriptures, but I've watched many here make this about me. This thread isn't even about the discussion anymore. It's become about me and how wrong others believe I am. I love to share all of the stories and testimonies I have from the many journeys God has taken me on, because they all glorify God and show His unending faithfulness. However, many of the questions asked of me by many here, are often accusing, bitter, angry, full of skepticism and fear. The fear is often the root for the rest of it. I understand the fear, because I have encountered it in many people. I mean think about it, if God would actually tell this guy to go sleep on the streets for a time, then there is that possibility that God might tell you or someone else to do the same, and that's a scary thought. Believe me, it was a scary thought for me in the beginning. You asked me how I know that it's God voice that I'm hearing. That's a very reasonable and good question. There are many ways to discern God's voice. One very basic way that I'm aware of through scripture is 1 John 4:1-6 1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Discernment of spirits is also a gift of the Holy Spirit. Not only is one of God's children able to discern the spirit behind the voices that one hears internally, but is also able to discern the spirit behind the voices that come from external sources as well. This also works really well in finding out who is hearing God real good, and when they speak, who is speaking out of their flesh. Do you agree with that Vicki? If not, then where can this discussion between you and I possibly go from here. I mean, there's just no way that you're gonna convince me that I'm not hearing God's voice, because He has been so faithful to show up everywhere He leads me. He has confirmed His voice to me in so many ways. On the other side of this, if you don't at least believe in the gift of discernment of spirits and that it is real and available to God's children, then how will I ever convince you otherwise. If you don't believe that, then I can answer your questions and the questions of others all day long and what will it change. People will believe what they want to believe about me. What another person believes about me doesn't change one thing about my life. Or maybe, is it possible that you want to believe that God speaks that clearly to His people? Is that why your asking the all the questions about me? If this is the reason behind all your questions, then I would be happy to share every story of everything God has done in my life, and maybe those testimonies will give glory to God in your eyes. If that is the case, I will share my stories with you privately. My stories hold the answers to all of the questions that you've asked of me. I love you, Chris |
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11-24-2009, 05:04 PM
Post: #26
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RE: Denominationalism
(11-21-2009 03:41 PM)Strefanash Wrote: Vic Stref, My statement was an observation, not a sarcastic statement. That you are offended is your issue because it was intended to suggest to you that you don't take enough time when you read and respond--which in your subsequent email you agreed with. You also changed your mind and want back on the forum, although you have not been banned or removed. You think I don't hear your repetitive statements in almost every post, about your living in sin, reveling in your carnality, dishonesty and heresies? You have no "pearls" to give to anyone, Stref. You see we have done this routine so many times now, and you have a temper tantrum and rage and then leave and come back--with no change whatsoever. And Sheep, myself and others have laid out scripture after scripture showing where you err--and you fully reject it in favor of that voice telling you: * it's okay to spit upon the finished work of Christ; * it's ok to ignore all the warnings about repenting and turning to Christ Today; *it's okay to revel in sin and pornography and be carnal and reject the Word as the standard...because that voice tells you it is all okay. You say the Letter kills because you do not understand living in the Spirit and reject the idea that you are called to study the Word--you hate the Word of God --you say you fear and dread it and maybe well you should since you overturn Scripture after Scripture in order to be able to stay in your sin. The sad part is you know the Truth and are like the dog returning to it's vomit...yes I know that will make you even more furious but I chance it, in order to yet again tell you the Truth. You have no concept or understanding about the indwelling Holy Spirit making the Word ALIVE--because the Scriptures are God-breathed and you can only understand them and desire them if you belong to Jesus Christ. I would suggest that you follow another gospel and another Jesus--if you have ever known Christ...I really don't know. Because the fruit you bear is not of Christ Stref. You want that voice to "woo" you to repentance when you already know the way and what to do. You simply refuse to keep Christ's Words. Jesus said if you love Him you will keep His Words....and those words are found in the Word of God. You want to be viewed as special, and have this special relationship with this voice--that you believe is Christ. Here's the thing--God cannot lie nor is He a respector of persons. Therefore, being told that you don't need to repent, and it's ok to wallow in carnal unbelief, pornography and sin; and you don't need to study the Word in order to show yourself approved, is a lie and contradicts the Word of God. You think that is being legalistic. And I am telling you yet again, that the Word of God is the standard by which we are to measure Truth. You think my relationship with Christ is equated to and limited to "a Bible verse vending machine"? You have no idea what it is to live for Christ--it is foolishness to you--just as the Scriptures say. 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. The Scriptures aren't some magic formula. They are filled with God's wisdom and direction for us. You think that your 'dialogue' is somehow better than what someone who is living for Christ can have---you said it yourself--doesn't it get better than what you are wallowing in and revelling in every day? It does, when someone live's for Christ, but you won't accept that as truth. You don't want to believe because then it would mean you are wrong and need to deal with this stuff. I was reminded of the prodigal son wallowing in the pig slop--thinking it was all a-okay, until one day it dawned on him that he could have a good life if he went back to his father. That's what you are like Stref. Reveling in everything but the Truth. Having head knowledge that is not part of your heart ....yes we all know you have an incredible intellect, and what good is it, if you are never at peace with Christ? What good is it, if you can never comprehend what it is to be spiritually free in Christ? What good is it , if you view everyone's spiritual life as the same as yours, hopeless and going the wrong way? What good is it to sit for years in the same spirtual slop and never grow, never make any headway, because this voice is keeping you mired right down in that "carnal, raging person" that you admit to being every single time you post? How can you claim as good a testimony of such stinking fruit and condemn others for serving Christ and doing what the Scriptures say as best we can in our walk wherever we are at? Not in our strength or abilities but resting in Him. Romans 6:1-16 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3. Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4. Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6. Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7. For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9. Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? You exhibit none of the fruit of the Spirit you claim to dialogue with, yet condemn others for following Christ. We have been through this several times now, and I have given you Scripture after Scripture which you reject claiming your experience/feelings--as unedifying and destructive as it is for you--trumps Scriptural Truth and is somehow the goal for all. The Scriptures tell me that I am to do certain things and also when dealing with false teachings/beliefs and error that can cause others to stumble: Titus 3:7-11 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8. This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. 9. But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain. 10. A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; 11. Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. Do you see Stref, that because you reject Scriptural Truth you are subverting yourself and others who might listen to you? These verses which you despise are what you need to take to heart...or not...it's your choice. Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27. But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 2 Peter 2:18-22 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. Stref, none of us know when God will require us to stand before Him. You think the last 30 years have been for you to wallow in sin and play these games of fighting God and rejecting the Truth, all the while being seduced into thinking it's okay to stay sinning, because you can do it like that another 30 yrs and never obtain repentance. But what if, God required you today or tomorrow to stand before Him ? And instead of believing the Word, you listen to that voice that tells you not to worry about enjoying that pornography, not to worry about all those times you shake your fist at God about and never repent, because the voice tells you, you have time to get 'wooed'. What if Stref, your time is up? Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
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12-29-2009, 04:09 PM
Post: #27
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RE: Denominationalism
Please see the expose on rancherforchrist aka Chris Evans at:
http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.php?tid=540 Vic SeekGod.ca 3John 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth. Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint. |
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01-29-2010, 01:44 PM
Post: #28
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RE: Denominationalism
We should not blame Jesus or the original NT because of disobedient men.
Sometimes the translations are to blame. For Example... some of those alleged Titles used by Paul are mistranslations where Diakonos is translated as "Office of a Deacon" instead of simple "Servant". Or the reverent sounding "Presbyter" instead of "Elder". When in fact, these words are sometimes translated as correctly in other places where it does not matter but translated as Titles or Offices whenever it edified the Establishment at the time. Even the KJV was written from an anglican/catholic point of view in thhis manner. Whereas the Geneva followed Tyndale's example and used words like "Congregation" or "assembly" instead of "Church" which was a term for the State religion rather than body of believers. And these issues cause misunderstanding even today. The Church is not the Government nor is it Buildings. It is the Body of SAVED BELIEVERS and DISCIPLES off JESUS! |
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01-30-2010, 12:15 AM
Post: #29
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RE: Denominationalism
(01-29-2010 01:44 PM)Scotchman Wrote: Sometimes the translations are to blame. For Example... some of those alleged Titles used by Paul are mistranslations where Diakonos is translated as "Office of a Deacon" instead of simple "Servant". Or the reverent sounding "Presbyter" instead of "Elder". When in fact, these words are sometimes translated as correctly in other places where it does not matter but translated as Titles or Offices whenever it edified the Establishment at the time. I think you are referring to the King James Bible here. The language choice was from the 1600s and has changed. It's not really an issue. All someone has to do is look at a concordance for further definition. I think the problem sometimes is a denominational interpretation rather than the "misuse" of words  Quote:Even the KJV was written from an anglican/catholic point of view in thhis manner. Whereas the Geneva followed Tyndale's example and used words like "Congregation" or "assembly" instead of "Church" which was a term for the State religion rather than body of believers. Actually, the translators of the King James version were from various denominations. King James was more interested in a scholarly version and so he gathered a great number of credentialed scholars to do the work. As a matter of fact, never, in the history of man has there been such an illustrious group gathered together to do such a task. It is phenomenal and probably will never again be duplicated. Some of the principal KJV translators: Dr. Launcelot Andrewes, Dean of Westminster, presided over the Westminster company. Fuller says of him: "The world wanted learning to know how learned this man was, so skilled in all (especially Oriental) languages, that some conceive he might, if then living, almost have served as an interpreter-general at the confusion of tongues." He became successively Bishop of Chichester, Ely and Winchester. Born 1555, died 1626. Dr. Edward Lively, Regius Professor of Hebrew at Cambridge, and thus at the head of the Cambridge company, was eminent for his knowledge of Oriental languages, especially of Hebrew. He died in 1605, having been Professor of Hebrew for twenty-five years. His death was a great loss to the work which he had helped to begin, but not to complete. Dr. John Overall was made Professor of Divinity at Cambridge in 1596, and in 1604 was Dean of St. Paul's, London. He was considered by some the most scholarly divine in England. In 1614 he was made Bishop of Litchfield and Coventry. He was transferred to the See of Norwich in 1618. Born 1559, died 1619. Dr. Adrian de Saravia is said to have been the only foreigner employed on the work. He was born in Artois, France; his Father was a Spaniard, and his mother a Belgian. In 1582 he was Professor of Divinity at Leyden; in 1587 he came to England. He became Prebend of Canterbury, and afterward Canon of Westminster. He was noted for his knowledge of Hebrew. Born 1531, died 1612. William Bedwell, or Beadwell, was one of the greatest Arabic scholars of his day. At his death he left unfinished MSS. of an Arabic Lexicon, and also of a Persian Dictionary. Dr. Laurence Chadderton was for thirty-eight years Master of Emanuel College, Cambridge, and well versed in Rabbinical learning. He was one of the few Puritan divines among the translators. Born 1537; died 1640, at the advanced age of one hundred and three. Dr. John Reynolds, who first suggested the work, was a man of great attainments in Hebrew and Greek. He died before the revision was completed, but worked at it during his last sickness as long as his strength permitted. Born 1549, died 1607. Dr. Richard Kilbye, Oxford Professor of Hebrew, was reckoned among the first Hebraists of his day. Died 1620. Dr. Miles Smith was a student of classic authors from his youth, was well acquainted with the Rabbinical learning, and well versed in Hebrew, Chaldee, Syriac and Arabic. He was often called a "walking library." Born about 1568, died 1624. John Boyse, or Bois, at six years of age could write Hebrew elegantly. He was for twelve years chief lecturer in Greek at St. John's College, Cambridge. Bishop Andrewes, of Ely, made him a prebend in his church in 1615. He was one of the most laborious of all the revisers. Born 1560, died 1643. Sir Henry Saville was warden of Merton College, Oxford, for thirty-six years. He devoted his fortune to the encouragement of learning, and was himself a fine Greek scholar. Born 1549, died 1622. Dr. Thomas Holland was Regius Professor of Divinity in Exeter College, Oxford, and also Master of his college. He was considered a prodigy in all branches of literature. Born 1539, died 1612. ==== The Word "church" as we have discovered comes from Kurios, which is really cool and quite appropriate! |
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01-30-2010, 09:02 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-30-2010 09:04 PM by Scotchman.)
Post: #30
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RE: Denominationalism
(01-30-2010 12:15 AM)sheep wrecked Wrote: Actually, the translators of the King James version were from various denominations. Yes the Kirk thing is cool but the other point is not. Denominations like today did not exists the same then. The KJV is an Anglican translation for all intents. It was created to promote the anglican heirarchy as opposed to the Geneva Translation by the Separatists Baptists which opposed the Anglican Church and "so-called" divine right of kings.  That is why the notes are about the only thing changed between the Geneva and KJV. That and certain places were altered to read more Ecclesial! Some insight can be gained from the preface by the translators. They were not trying to create a new translation so much as one without offensive notes. And the Geneva notes were only offensive to Kings, Popes, and Arminians. 
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