Adam, Eve, free will and sin

[Goldenmean]

(04-08-2010 12:36 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:  Goldenmean
it would be nice to dialogue with you but as Sheep pointed out ,your posts contain so much stuff just put together with no scriptural explanations that one does not know where to start.
It just leaves the mind spinning!

My Apologies if my posts are too long... or meander off topic...
I will work on condensing my thoughts to be more palatable for others...

I understand that in a face to face conversation that this would be considered a long monologue or rant... However, in a written form, one can express a more complex concept... Another advantage to the written form is that one can choose to not listen/read it, and skip past it if one isn't interested in what I am saying... right?

What part of my Post do you want to dialogue on...?
What part of my Post do you want a scriptural reference for...?

[sheep wrecked]

(04-08-2010 06:28 PM)Goldenmean Wrote:  What part of my Post do you want to dialogue on...?
What part of my Post do you want a scriptural reference for...?

I have bolded in red, your statements that are untrue and unBiblical:

Quote: Moses wrote about the "Tree of Knowledge of Good AND Evil", not "Good OR Evil"...
I believe that these two Trees are in reference to Doctrine... either one Obeys God's Word (the Tree of Life) which is Knowledge of Goodness and through the Grace of God bears the fruit of Righteousness, or one eats of a different Tree...
The Tree of Knowledge of "Good AND Evil" refers to the Gnostic & Occultist doctrine of mixing false doctrine with the Truth, in the same way that the Pharisees mixed their Leaven in with the Lump of Scripture, enough to hide their heresies within the body of the Word, and thus corrupting the Laws of Moses...
I believe that Genesis is the Chronological Story of the Creation of Man, however, God had created His Angels prior to creating Man... The Serpent (Satan/Lucifer) has his Story of Rebellion & Fall described later in Scripture (in Isaiah, I believe)... This occurred chronologically before the Creation of Man, and Satan wanted to Corrupt Man in his Jealousy of God, and pervert Adam & Eve's thinking by getting them to commit the same Original Sin that he made... by thinking that they too can become like God, which is the Sin of Pride, and elevating one's ego above the natural order, as if the creature is equal to the Creator... and then trap mankind into the bondage of Sin, and trap their souls in his domain...
God gave Adam & Eve the free will to choose, otherwise they could never have committed the Original Sin by rebelling against God... God also knew the danger of the immortal Angels that had rebelled against God, and loved mankind enough to not let us suffer the same fate of being in eternal rebellion against God...
I believe that up until this point, Adam & Eve were more angelic than carnal, and the coat of skins that God provided meant that the souls of humanity were then placed within animal bodies... (born into Sin) until a later time when we could reach salvation through the Grace of God, through the Blood of Jesus Christ...
The Laws of Moses (10 commandments) are the road map to Salvation, and the Tribes of Israel were chosen to show humanity that we cannot achieve salvation by works alone... that even the greatest among us (King David) will still fall short and sin due to our carnal (selfish) nature... and no amount of animal sacrifice can ever substitute for our sinful nature... Therefore, God sent his Only Begotten Son to pay the Sin Debt by taking on ALL of the Sins of the World, & shedding His Innocent Blood on the Cross... Then during his three days in the tomb, Jesus went down to Paradise to rescue Abraham & all of the other righteous people that had died prior to the Coming of Jesus Christ up to Heaven, & to remake hades into Hell...
Not only did Jesus Christ create a path to Salvation for anyone who exercise their Freewill to follow Jesus & sacrifice their own Sinful nature on the Cross, but also as a Judgement against all who refuse to listen to their Conscience, and rebel against God by repeating the same Original Sin that caused Lucifer, Adam & Eve to fall... The same Sin of Pride by trying to make God into their Own Image, instead of repenting and remaking themselves into God's Image...

Is that more helpful to you?

[Goldenmean]

(04-08-2010 06:46 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote:  

(04-08-2010 06:28 PM)Goldenmean Wrote:  What part of my Post do you want to dialogue on...?
What part of my Post do you want a scriptural reference for...?

I have bolded in red, your statements that are untrue and unBiblical:

Quote: Moses wrote about the "Tree of Knowledge of Good AND Evil", not "Good OR Evil"...
I believe that these two Trees are in reference to Doctrine... either one Obeys God's Word (the Tree of Life) which is Knowledge of Goodness and through the Grace of God bears the fruit of Righteousness, or one eats of a different Tree...
The Tree of Knowledge of "Good AND Evil" refers to the Gnostic & Occultist doctrine of mixing false doctrine with the Truth, in the same way that the Pharisees mixed their Leaven in with the Lump of Scripture, enough to hide their heresies within the body of the Word, and thus corrupting the Laws of Moses...
I believe that Genesis is the Chronological Story of the Creation of Man, however, God had created His Angels prior to creating Man... The Serpent (Satan/Lucifer) has his Story of Rebellion & Fall described later in Scripture (in Isaiah, I believe)... This occurred chronologically before the Creation of Man, and Satan wanted to Corrupt Man in his Jealousy of God, and pervert Adam & Eve's thinking by getting them to commit the same Original Sin that he made... by thinking that they too can become like God, which is the Sin of Pride, and elevating one's ego above the natural order, as if the creature is equal to the Creator... and then trap mankind into the bondage of Sin, and trap their souls in his domain...
God gave Adam & Eve the free will to choose, otherwise they could never have committed the Original Sin by rebelling against God... God also knew the danger of the immortal Angels that had rebelled against God, and loved mankind enough to not let us suffer the same fate of being in eternal rebellion against God...
I believe that up until this point, Adam & Eve were more angelic than carnal, and the coat of skins that God provided meant that the souls of humanity were then placed within animal bodies... (born into Sin) until a later time when we could reach salvation through the Grace of God, through the Blood of Jesus Christ...
The Laws of Moses (10 commandments) are the road map to Salvation, and the Tribes of Israel were chosen to show humanity that we cannot achieve salvation by works alone... that even the greatest among us (King David) will still fall short and sin due to our carnal (selfish) nature... and no amount of animal sacrifice can ever substitute for our sinful nature... Therefore, God sent his Only Begotten Son to pay the Sin Debt by taking on ALL of the Sins of the World, & shedding His Innocent Blood on the Cross... Then during his three days in the tomb, Jesus went down to Paradise to rescue Abraham & all of the other righteous people that had died prior to the Coming of Jesus Christ up to Heaven, & to remake hades into Hell...
Not only did Jesus Christ create a path to Salvation for anyone who exercise their Freewill to follow Jesus & sacrifice their own Sinful nature on the Cross, but also as a Judgement against all who refuse to listen to their Conscience, and rebel against God by repeating the same Original Sin that caused Lucifer, Adam & Eve to fall... The same Sin of Pride by trying to make God into their Own Image, instead of repenting and remaking themselves into God's Image...

Is that more helpful to you?

How are they untrue or unbiblical...?

[Vic]

Goldenmean, what you are being asked is to prove your statements by precise Scriptures, not conjecture or adding to the Scriptures or your interpretation--but please provide the precise Scriptures that support your statements. Most of what you have said is your opinion. PLease back up your opinion with provable scriptures. And then lets get back on topic.

[Goldenmean]

Correction... I meant to say "Abraham's Bosom" and not "Paradise" in my last post... sorry for the confusion...

Genesis 2:9   And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

"And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."
Genesis 3:4-5

Isaiah 40:18  To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?

Revelation "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Isaiah 4:9   Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Isaiah 14:12  How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning * ! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:15  Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Proverbs 11:30   The fruit of the righteous [is] a tree of life; and he that winneth souls [is] wise.

Proverbs 15:4 A wholesome tongue [is] a tree of life: but perverseness therein [is] a breach in the spirit.

Revelation 22:14   Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Isaiah 3:10   Say ye to the righteous, that it shall be well with him: for they shall eat the fruit of their doings.

Isaiah 5:20   Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Revelation 22:12-15 “And he saith unto me... I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

Revelation 2:7   He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. 


Luke 23:43   And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Luke 16:23   And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Luke 16:25   But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 


Psa 58:4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

Matthew 16:6   Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Matthew 16:12   Then understood they how that he bade [them] not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Luke 12:1   In the mean time... he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.

Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 7:14  Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel *.

Isaiah 7:15   Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

Isaiah 42:5  Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
42:6  I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

42:7  To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

Isaiah 43:27  Thy first father hath sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me. 43:28  Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.

Isaiah 65:8  For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

Isaiah 65:17  For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:4  I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

Isaiah 66:22  For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

[Vic]

Ok Goldenmean. We are going to discontinue what you are trying to answer. Listing a bunch of scriptures without showing which one you were applying to each of your myriad of statements leaves a whole lot of work to try and cross reference them to your other posts. So while we believe every verse to be true--how you are applying them and making the statements you made is what was being asked of you.

So we will end the conversation on all these off topic points here. If you have a statement to make concerning the topic of this thread, please show with scripture your point.