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Rose of Shushan · 11-09-2010, 06:32 PM

Quote:I see over and over again Messies who want to desperately be Jews, who want to convert, but they just can't give up Jesus. So they try to meld the Jew they want to be with the Christian beliefs they still hold.

Speaking from my personal experience, I found that many of the messianics that I have been friends with didn't actually know any jewish people and hadn't interacted with any prior to their becoming messianic.
Therefore they tend to equate being jewish with being torah observant.To many the word jewish conjured up images of pious men,rabbis and men in black hats Biggrin

To a jew though, the way they express their "jewishness" will vary according to their sub culture,the time in which they lived and their location.
Those people that are familiar with jews and jewish people,will know that jews are just like everyone else.There are many types of judaism and even so many jews don't even practise judaism and instead are aethists or have joined another religion.
Messianics seem to have the idea that just because someone is jewish that they are more holy or acceptable to God just for that reason.

SheitlQueen · 11-11-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:Messianics seem to have the idea that just because someone is jewish that they are more holy or acceptable to God just for that reason.

You are 100% right. I was just looking at James Trimm's website and forum, and he proclaims in several places he is a Jew.
Other members there also proclaim themselves Jewish, when they are not.

I recently watched a video of someone who proclaims they were raised a " Modern Orthodox pharisee Jew" but are now a "karaite". But you can tell from the video he doesn't know what he is talking about because he makes a couple of
very glaring mistakes. He is speaking in a church to a group of people, basically insulting "pharisee Judaism". I have no
doubt he is a gentile trying to pass himself off to people who know even less than he does.

It's very sad that so many Messianics think they need to be Jews or "Hebrews" or "Nazarenes" or "Israel" to be
accepted by G-d.

YYZ Skinhead · 11-12-2010, 01:31 PM

(11-11-2010 03:52 PM)SheitlQueen Wrote:
Quote:Messianics seem to have the idea that just because someone is jewish that they are more holy or acceptable to God just for that reason.

You are 100% right. I was just looking at James Trimm's website and forum, and he proclaims in several places he is a Jew.
Other members there also proclaim themselves Jewish, when they are not.

I recently watched a video of someone who proclaims they were raised a " Modern Orthodox pharisee Jew" but are now a "karaite". But you can tell from the video he doesn't know what he is talking about because he makes a couple of
very glaring mistakes. He is speaking in a church to a group of people, basically insulting "pharisee Judaism". I have no
doubt he is a gentile trying to pass himself off to people who know even less than he does.

It's very sad that so many Messianics think they need to be Jews or "Hebrews" or "Nazarenes" or "Israel" to be
accepted by G-d.

The Messys will never listen to real Jews who say that "playing Jewish" is offensive, do they? Had I known that a lot of the junk I was doing in the WWCOG was an offense to the Jewish people I was imitating, I never would have done those things. Sign0013

SheitlQueen · 11-13-2010, 10:58 PM

I just saw this post from a different forum. It is from a "Messianic" Jew who had a Jewish mother, Native American father, and was raised Catholic.
He has involved himself in the Messy faith for quite a few years now, and seems disgusted that it is filled with gentiles.
I think it is one of the best descriptions of "Messianic" Judaism I've seen:

Quote:gentile originated charicturization of what they think is Jewish

Rose of Shushan · 11-14-2010, 09:14 AM

Quote:He has involved himself in the Messy faith for quite a few years now, and seems disgusted that it is filled with gentiles.

That is so sad!
While I don't think that messianic judaism is what the NT teaches, it is still so sad to see how this person has missed the boat so to speak.
There are so many Scriptures that show that God intended His Name to be praised by all nations and that Jesus was to be salvation to the whole world not just to Israel.

The prophet Isaiah prophesied

Isa 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Isa 11:12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

There are more Scriptures like this but we get the idea in those.
That poster Sheitl, seems to me to want to merge Jesus with Judaism, but as we have all recognised before,it can't be done without distorting or eliminating parts of the NT and also the OT.
I don't understand his disgust if he is still a believer in Jesus.I would understand it more if he had left Messiah to convert to Judaism.
I do agree with him that messianics do what they think is jewish but as I mentioned in another post, I think it has to do with them not having had experience or contact with jewish people in the past and them thinking that the jewishness makes them more pious or holy and thus to be imitated.

SheitlQueen · 11-14-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:I don't understand his disgust if he is still a believer in Jesus.I would understand it more if he had left Messiah to convert to Judaism.

I've seen this attitude expressed before by Jews who are Messianics, including one who is a gentile and had a phony conversion to
"Messianic" Judaism and now says gentiles (which he still is) shouldn't be a part of it.

They also are the only group of Jews I know of that do not recognize converts to Judaism. It seems they feel being Jewish is a special
club that no one else may take part of.

Backpacker · 12-29-2010, 02:24 AM

One of the most ironic paradoxes within Messianic Judaism is that they reject the traditions of the Jews, yet embrace other traditions. For instance, the Jewish tradition is to not pronounce the tetragramaton, but instead say adonai or hashem. But anytime the Messianics use Hebrew words (emunah, menorah, meshiach, mo'ediym, etc) they are embracing the tradition of how to pronounce Hebrew words. There is no way to know how Hebrew was originally pronounced, it is only by the tradition of the Jews that they pronounce any Hebrew word.

Jacob