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grafted · 07-08-2010, 12:22 PM

(07-08-2010 11:31 AM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:
Quote:We don't have a Seder plate, but we go through what each item meant, and we do remove all leaven, and recite what Christ said to do in remembrance of him..

Which items would that be?

a. a bitter herb (the bitterness of slavery)
b. chopped nuts w/brown sugar and cinnamon (the mortar)
c. parsley dipped in salt water (tears shed during slavery)
d. a roasted shank bone (temple sacrifice); Christ is our sacrifice
e. hardboiled egg (festival sacrifice)
f. a dish of salt water.

We don't make the plate, but go through the list of items that would be on the plate, recalling what they went through, and why each item is there.

Rose of Shushan · 07-08-2010, 02:33 PM

Quote:a. a bitter herb (the bitterness of slavery)
b. chopped nuts w/brown sugar and cinnamon (the mortar)
c. parsley dipped in salt water (tears shed during slavery)
d. a roasted shank bone (temple sacrifice); Christ is our sacrifice
e. hardboiled egg (festival sacrifice)
f. a dish of salt water.

We don't make the plate, but go through the list of items that would be on the plate, recalling what they went through, and why each item is there.

So you don't actually have the items set out on a plate but still go through the items that are on the traditional seder plate.

I am wondering why you chose a ritual based on the talmudic system of remembering Passover if you are a follower of Christ.
The seder is Judaism's way of honouring the Passover.Even though I believe we are all free to worship ,I do think its important to do so in spirit and in TRUTH
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

And it just seems to me odd to take the customs set up by the very religion that rejects Christ and use them in our worship.
You say you removed the physical leaven but remember that we are told to beware of this spiritual leaven

Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Mat 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mat 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

sheep wrecked · (This post was last modified: 07-08-2010 03:21 PM by sheep wrecked.)

(07-08-2010 02:33 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:
Quote:a. a bitter herb (the bitterness of slavery)
b. chopped nuts w/brown sugar and cinnamon (the mortar)
c. parsley dipped in salt water (tears shed during slavery)
d. a roasted shank bone (temple sacrifice); Christ is our sacrifice
e. hardboiled egg (festival sacrifice)
f. a dish of salt water.

We don't make the plate, but go through the list of items that would be on the plate, recalling what they went through, and why each item is there.

So you don't actually have the items set out on a plate but still go through the items that are on the traditional seder plate.

I am wondering why you chose a ritual based on the talmudic system of remembering Passover if you are a follower of Christ.
The seder is Judaism's way of honouring the Passover.Even though I believe we are all free to worship ,I do think its important to do so in spirit and in TRUTH
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

And it just seems to me odd to take the customs set up by the very religion that rejects Christ and use them in our worship.
You say you removed the physical leaven but remember that we are told to beware of this spiritual leaven

Mat 16:6 Then Jesus said unto them, Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

Mat 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mat 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

What Rose said

and - did you realize that the egg, shank bone, chopped nuts, parsley, and dish of saltwater have nothing to do with Jesus Christ? they were added to passover by Talmudic Rabbis and denote mystic associations? The Talmud denigrates Jesus Christ.

Quote:KARPAS

Karpas is a vegetable (other than bitter herbs) such as celery, parsley, or boiled potato. It must be a vegetable on which we make the blessing, Borei Pri Ha'Adamah. Passover is the Spring festival where we celebrate the birth of our nation -- and these vegetables are a symbol of rebirth and rejuvenation.

MARROR & CHAZERET

These are the bitter herbs which symbolize the lot of the Hebrew slaves whose lives were embittered by the hard labor. Many people use horseradish for Marror and Romaine lettuce for Chazeret.

CHAROSET

Charoset reminds us of the hard Jewish labor performed with bricks and mortar. Charoset is a pasty mixture of nuts, dates, apples, wine and cinnamon. The Talmud says this serves as an "antiseptic" to dilute the harsh effects of the Marror.

ZERO'AH

During the times of the Temple in Jerusalem, the Korbon Pesach (Pascal Lamb) was brought to the Temple on the eve of Passover. It was roasted, and was the last thing eaten at the Seder meal. To commemorate this offering, we place a roasted chicken bone with a little meat remaining.

In Temple times, every Jew was "registered" to eat the Korbon Pesach with his particular group. The Talmud says that the bigger the group, the better. This is a source for having large Seder gatherings!

BEITZAH

A second offering, called the Chagigah, was brought to the Temple and eaten as the main course of the Seder meal. Today, instead of a second piece of meat, we use a roasted egg -- which is traditionally a symbol of mourning -- to remind us of the destruction of the Temple. The Talmud points out that every year, the first day of Passover falls out on the same day of the week as Tisha B'Av, the day of mourning for the destruction of the Temple

http://www.aish.com/h/pes/h/48970891.html

grafted · 07-08-2010, 03:51 PM

(07-08-2010 03:09 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: So you don't actually have the items set out on a plate but still go through the items that are on the traditional seder plate.

Shouldn't be a mystery, it is a good history lesson of what is included, and why. The story of the what took place in Egypt is recapped, and remembrance of what our ancestors went through recounted; yes we are Hebrew.

Quote:I am wondering why you chose a ritual based on the talmudic system of remembering Passover if you are a follower of Christ.
The seder is Judaism's way of honouring the Passover.Even though I believe we are all free to worship ,I do think its important to do so in spirit and in TRUTH

Why we choose a ritual based on talmud? humm, seems that we were recounting everything for a history lesson during that time period vs actually setting it out. Removing the physical leaven however is not only a good physical way of remembering the event, but also a good way to clean out the cupboards and have good sport doing it.

Quote:And it just seems to me odd to take the customs set up by the very religion that rejects Christ and use them in our worship.
You say you removed the physical leaven but remember that we are told to beware of this spiritual leaven

In our worship--as you say, as in one servant should not judge another on a specific day or diet, it is for the master to judge the servant not for one servant to judge another about how they give honor to him?

Removing the spiritual leaven of the Pharisees works both ways, don't yoke us, as we are not yoking ourselves: we are having good sport cleaning out the physical, recounting history, partaking in the remembrance the way Christ himself specified, going over the lessons of his sacrifice and its meaning for us today and tomorrow.

Rose of Shushan · 07-08-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:In our worship--as you say, as in one servant should not judge another on a specific day or diet, it is for the master to judge the servant not for one servant to judge another about how they give honor to him?

Removing the spiritual leaven of the Pharisees works both ways, don't yoke us, as we are not yoking ourselves: we are having good sport cleaning out the physical, recounting history, partaking in the remembrance the way Christ himself specified, going over the lessons of his sacrifice and its meaning for us today and tomorrow.

Well it is well and good for you to now say that we shouldn't judge you or yoke on you but you were the one that posted to this thread in the first place Biggrin

You were the one that posted to a thread that asks whether Easter is pagan and asked the following question

Quote:Didn't he specify how to remember him though?

and

Quote:I am familiar with the passages, and though I do not celebrate Easter, I am simply curious about your stance on the issue.

an issue which had been discussed prior to you entering the thread.
So grafted, I think that if you enter the discussion and when we discuss our stance you find our response to be "judging" and "yoking you ",isn't it a bit unfair? It's like if we say something that you don't like we are judging?

grafted · 07-08-2010, 04:23 PM

(07-08-2010 04:11 PM)Rose of Shushan Wrote:
Quote:In our worship--as you say, as in one servant should not judge another on a specific day or diet, it is for the master to judge the servant not for one servant to judge another about how they give honor to him?

Removing the spiritual leaven of the Pharisees works both ways, don't yoke us, as we are not yoking ourselves: we are having good sport cleaning out the physical, recounting history, partaking in the remembrance the way Christ himself specified, going over the lessons of his sacrifice and its meaning for us today and tomorrow.

Well it is well and good for you to now say that we shouldn't judge you or yoke on you but you were the one that posted to this thread in the first place
You were the one that posted to a thread that asks whether Easter is pagan and asked the following question

Quote:Didn't he specify how to remember him though?

Yes I did ask, "didn't he specify how to remember him though," a question, not a "do this or don't do that or you aren't doing it right". No yoke put placed.

Quote:I am familiar with the passages, and though I do not celebrate Easter, I am simply curious about your stance on the issue.

an issue which had been discussed prior to you entering the thread.
So grafted, I think that if you enter the discussion and when we discuss our stance you find our response to be "judging" and "yoking you ",isn't it a bit unfair? It's like if we say something that you don't like we are judging?

Again a statement that "we" here do not celebrate Easter. If you do, then that is for you, we here do not. Another question was posed at the end as to being curious about Sheep's stance on the issue. Not an accusation, accusal, or anything other than a question as to her stance.

The do not yoke us as we have not yoked ourselves is nothing more than a biblical warning, in the same spirit that Sheep posted the scriptures in her reply to me. I know them well, and in that spirit I put do not yoke us.
Note I did say I was a Romans 14 type of person. If you celebrate whatever in honor of him then who am I to judge you wrongly for it? I will ask why, as has been done to me here, and I have answered.

sheep wrecked · (This post was last modified: 07-08-2010 04:32 PM by sheep wrecked.)

(07-08-2010 04:23 PM)grafted Wrote: Again a statement that "we" here do not celebrate Easter. If you do, then that is for you, we here do not. Another question was posed at the end as to being curious about Sheep's stance on the issue. Not an accusation, accusal, or anything other than a question as to her stance.

The do not yoke us as we have not yoked ourselves is nothing more than a biblical warning, in the same spirit that Sheep posted the scriptures in her reply to me. I know them well, and in that spirit I put do not yoke us.
Note I did say I was a Romans 14 type of person. If you celebrate whatever in honor of him then who am I to judge you wrongly for it? I will ask why, as has been done to me here, and I have answered.

I don't think you realize that you have put a yoke upon yourself, because what you are practicing when it comes to the Seder is Rabbinic Judaism and has nothing to do with Christ. Please read post #23 on this page - not sure if you missed it.

Rose of Shushan · 07-08-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:Again a statement that "we" here do not celebrate Easter. If you do, then that is for you, we here do not. Another question was posed at the end as to being curious about Sheep's stance on the issue. Not an accusation, accusal, or anything other than a question as to her stance.

The thing is her stance is clear if you had read the thread.The thread included the link to a long discussion on Easter or Passover which in case you missed is here

http://www.seekgod.ca/forum/showthread.p...215&page=1

Our stances are very clear there.
Even so this is a discussion forum and no-one is here to yoke you.You seem to be quite capable of doing that to yourself ;)
Seriously speaking though are we judging? We could say that yes, all of us are, you ,me and everyone else who posts on this forum.We are judging whether people's doctrines and beliefs align with Scripture.Or to our respective views and interpretations of Scripture since many people seem to see the same verses in Scripture in totally different ways.

Rose of Shushan · (This post was last modified: 07-08-2010 04:46 PM by Rose of Shushan.)

Quote:Yes I did ask, "didn't he specify how to remember him though," a question, not a "do this or don't do that or you aren't doing it right". No yoke put placed.

In reading over the thread I am still not sure why you asked that question.The way it was phrased meant that somehow what we had written in that thread was troubling you...since you didnt explain further we did try to clarify what you meant with questions.

***Vic*** · 07-09-2010, 09:13 AM

(07-08-2010 03:51 PM)grafted Wrote:
(07-08-2010 03:09 PM)sheep wrecked Wrote: So you don't actually have the items set out on a plate but still go through the items that are on the traditional seder plate.

Shouldn't be a mystery, it is a good history lesson of what is included, and why. The story of the what took place in Egypt is recapped, and remembrance of what our ancestors went through recounted; yes we are Hebrew.

Quote:I am wondering why you chose a ritual based on the talmudic system of remembering Passover if you are a follower of Christ.
The seder is Judaism's way of honouring the Passover.Even though I believe we are all free to worship ,I do think its important to do so in spirit and in TRUTH

Why we choose a ritual based on talmud? humm, seems that we were recounting everything for a history lesson during that time period vs actually setting it out. Removing the physical leaven however is not only a good physical way of remembering the event, but also a good way to clean out the cupboards and have good sport doing it.

Quote:And it just seems to me odd to take the customs set up by the very religion that rejects Christ and use them in our worship.
You say you removed the physical leaven but remember that we are told to beware of this spiritual leaven

In our worship--as you say, as in one servant should not judge another on a specific day or diet, it is for the master to judge the servant not for one servant to judge another about how they give honor to him?

Removing the spiritual leaven of the Pharisees works both ways, don't yoke us, as we are not yoking ourselves: we are having good sport cleaning out the physical, recounting history, partaking in the remembrance the way Christ himself specified, going over the lessons of his sacrifice and its meaning for us today and tomorrow.

Grafted not to split hairs here, but you said, "yes we are Hebrew." Most actual Jews say they are Jews if they are of Jewish descent. People in HR will at times refer to themselves as being Hebrew. So, why don't you call yourself a Jew if you are of actual provable Jewish heritage? Or are you in fact referring to HR thought in that gentiles become 'hebrews', something which Michael Rood for one taught.